# Fashion shows. Seriously, WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938 "2010-07-08T06:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/101 "2010-07-10T04:38:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Indeed. I personally have no reason to doubt the wonder of the Three Wolf Moon shirt. I clearly recall the day I happened to be wearing mine while flipping idly through a Victoria’s Secret catalog during a commercial break in a _Babylon Five_ marathon and the pictured models _came to life_ and began making love to me. Tragically, they retained their catalog two-dimensional properties and when I awoke from my an hour later, I and the shirt were covered in paper-cuts. > > The shirt went immediately into my closet, where it remains. I fear its power. And I missed that episode where Sheridan’s long-lost wife shows up. Turns out he married Half-Pint Ingalls. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/102 "2010-07-10T05:40:45Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Guys, this is the message board where a majority of the members are likely- at this very moment- wearing a [Three Wolf Moon](http://www.amazon.com/Mountain-Three-Wolf-Short-Sleeve/dp/B002HJ377A) or Firefly shirt and thinking they look good. > [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > A-fucking-men. And the reviews for the wolf shirt are hysterical. No kidding – thank you for that link. An interesting tidbit about high fashion and fashion shows: the concept of the “catwalk” was invented by [Lady Lucile Duff Gordon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy,_Lady_Duff-Gordon), a _Titanic_ survivor. I for one, ADORE fashion shows and high fashion. How is fashion not “art” and painting and sculpting is? It’s simply a different medium – cloth instead of paint or clay. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/103 "2010-07-10T09:39:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > An interesting tidbit about high fashion and fashion shows: the concept of the “catwalk” was invented by [Lady Lucile Duff Gordon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy,_Lady_Duff-Gordon) I see they started to force her out of her company in 1918. I guess her way of thinking just wasn’t cost-effective. Well, that, and she was funneling profits to the Kaiser. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/104 "2010-07-10T10:36:33Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > - Or at least, it’s not _any more_ shallow and stupid than, say, being really interested in cars, sports, etc. That’s the point. It’s exactly as shallow and unimportant as sports, which I think we can all agree are almost entirely shallow and unimportant. The unabashed reverence and self-importance of the Priestly quote is what is laughable. > [@valleyofthedolls](#): > > Or maybe some people just really appreciate the craftmanship and artistry that goes into these clothes just as some people like to stroke their sad, little egos by labeling other people’s interests materialistic and shallow? They _are_ materialistic and shallow, literally by definition. Embrace your frivolities; your blood pressure will be better off for it. For example, I’m a hardcore sports fan. I embrace the pointlessness of sports. Why do fashion fans get so invested in their pursuits being objectively meaningful? > [@even\_sven](#): > > Let’s look at architecture. > […] > some people find that bring some richness to their lives. > […] > It doesn’t really matter. But it does add value to some people’s lives. This post was eloquent and compelling, but it does nothing to refute the idea that fashion (and architecture) actually is shallow and unimportant. Just like sports, which many people feel bring richness and add value to their lives. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/105 "2010-07-10T21:56:28Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That’s the point. It’s exactly as shallow and unimportant as sports, which I think we can all agree are almost entirely shallow and unimportant. The unabashed reverence and self-importance of the Priestly quote is what is laughable. The point is, though, that whenever more traditionally “feminine” hobbies and interests are brought up on this board (fashion, makeup, shopping, whatever)- the troops rally in, screaming about how shallow and vapid it all is. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sports thread where there was a multitude of folks talking about how useless the World Series/ NBA Play off/ Masters/ whatever is. Or a video game thread where there’s a swarm of folks chastising the very idea of video games or computers. But hey, those are “manly” things, so they are inherently of more value to our society. And sometimes, something just being entertaining makes it of value. Not everything has to bring world peace to be of value. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/106 "2010-07-10T22:10:04Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > The point is, though, that whenever more traditionally “feminine” hobbies and interests are brought up on this board (fashion, makeup, shopping, whatever)- the troops rally in, screaming about how shallow and vapid it all is. > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen a sports thread where there was a multitude of folks talking about how useless the World Series/ NBA Play off/ Masters/ whatever is. Or a video game thread where there’s a swarm of folks chastising the very idea of video games or computers. But hey, those are “manly” things, so they are inherently of more value to our society. > And sometimes, something just being entertaining makes it of value. Not everything has to bring world peace to be of value. Exactly. Anything to do with computers, video games, sci fi or fantasy, sports\*, cars, home improvement, etc. have threads go off without any goddamned threadshitting. They’re “manly” topics. “Girly” topics like… oh, I dunno… _fashion_ always have some ass pimple (if not more) rolling their eyes and talking about how shallow and self absorbed it is. I mean, it has to be, right, because most MANLY MEN aren’t interested in it. :rolleyes: - to a lesser extent since we have some major anti-sports nerds here. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/107 "2010-07-10T22:34:06Z")
AKShuly, I love the SDMB for the mix of left AND right brained smart people here. I’ve found the opinion of MANY people of a more artistic bent to be valid and fascinating. So don’t go brushing with too broad a brush, there. (And I hate organized sports, to boot. ) ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/108 "2010-07-10T22:39:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > This post was eloquent and compelling, but it does nothing to refute the idea that fashion (and architecture) actually is shallow and unimportant. Just like sports, which many people feel bring richness and add value to their lives. I have to say that just because you regard it as unimportant, the vast sums of money, people employed, number of magazines and amount of coverage fashion gets means a lot of people in the world think it is important - just not you. And as for shallow, do you admire the skill of the sportsmen who’s games you watch? Have you ever seen a piece of couture up close? The quality of the craftmanship is something else. All of the embroidery done by hand, the pattern making - some pieces take hundreds of hours of work to make. That’s besides the imagination of the designer. What’s shallow about saying, holy crap that’s beautiful, and impressive, and I’ve love to own it? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/109 "2010-07-10T22:41:33Z")
I can’t speak for Diosa, but I didn’t assume she was talking in particular about men. On the contrary, it’s usually women who can’t wait to tell other women how shallow and vapid those of us who are interested in ‘girly’ things are. One of the more insidious and disheartening forms of misogyny I run into regularly is women eager to prove how unlike ‘other women’ they are. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/110 "2010-07-10T22:45:05Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I can’t speak for Diosa, but I didn’t assume she was talking in particular about men. On the contrary, it’s usually women who can’t wait to tell other women how shallow and vapid those of us who are interested in ‘girly’ things are. One of the more insidious and disheartening forms of misogyny I run into regularly is women eager to prove how unlike ‘other women’ they are. Which is an excellent point. It’s like you have to deny “girly” interests to be seen as real, smart, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/111 "2010-07-10T22:47:21Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Have you ever seen a piece of couture up close? The quality of the craftmanship is something else. All of the embroidery done by hand, the pattern making - some pieces take hundreds of hours of work to make. That’s besides the imagination of the designer. What’s shallow about saying, holy crap that’s beautiful, and impressive, and I’ve love to own it? C’mon, it’s just clothes! KIDDING! KIDDING! I’m not a fashion maven, for two reasons. One, I can’t afford and they don’t make high-end clothing in my size, unless it’s custom. And two, couture for men is boring. Really boring. Like, well-tailored suits boring. But I do recognize and sometimes include fashion in my entertainment choices, through shows like Project Runway. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/112 "2010-07-10T23:22:15Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I can’t speak for Diosa, but I didn’t assume she was talking in particular about men. On the contrary, it’s usually women who can’t wait to tell other women how shallow and vapid those of us who are interested in ‘girly’ things are. One of the more insidious and disheartening forms of misogyny I run into regularly is women eager to prove how unlike ‘other women’ they are. You’re right on the money 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/113 "2010-07-11T01:53:27Z")
If mainstream designers and department stores don’t watch fashion shows then they won’t know what clothes people will buy. That alone makes fashion shows important. Whether it matters if the latest trend is cerulean or lizardskin is besides the point. What matters is that fashion shows tell the industry what the trend will be, so that they know to buy or design lizardskin next season instead of anything else. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/114 "2010-07-11T05:46:57Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > If mainstream designers and department stores don’t watch fashion shows then they won’t know what clothes people will buy. > > That alone makes fashion shows important. Whether it matters if the latest trend is cerulean or lizardskin is besides the point. What matters is that fashion shows tell the industry what the trend will be, so that they know to buy or design lizardskin next season instead of anything else. I don’t understand that. The majority of people don’t watch them, either, so why would what they choose to buy be influenced by it? The reason there is any influence is because the stores buy it, so that’s what the cool people (who have enough money to buy clothes as soon as they come out) wear, meaning all the uncool people want it, too. Fashion shows only serve the purpose of getting all the stores doing the same thing, and, even then, it’s not like they know immediately what the wearable version is. The clothes people wear on TV or movies has more influence on people’s clothing choices–because they actually see them. Fashion show influence is all behind the scenes. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/115 "2010-07-11T06:01:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The clothes people wear on TV or movies has more influence on people’s clothing choices–because they actually see them. And that clothing comes from. . . ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/116 "2010-07-11T07:23:17Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > You seem to be something of an apologist for the industry. Nah. I’ve seen how he dresses. 😃 I used to dislike ‘fashion;’ having a good friend who worked in the fashion industry, and wasn’t in the least bit shallow or unintelligent either, was what made me to start to rethink the whole thing. I remembered going to the Victoria and Albert Museum and being fascinated by the women wearing bustles, then slightly smaller bustles, then suddenly completely flat dresses. You could look at a photo and tell when it was from just by the clothes they were wearing (even with second-hand clothes - they’d be more worn). You could tell what the person was trying to tell the wider world about themselves. Even if you’re picking up any old jumper fro m the bargain bin, you’re still using that to tell the world something about yourself. It’s shallow, yeah, but so is all art. So is this post - completely unnecessary. So are TV programmes; we could live without them. Etc, etc. And, God, it’s not like there are no fashions in art. Ever heard of the Impressionists, the Cubists, or the Surrealists? Yet would a SD thread about them be decried as shallow? At least fashion has the excuse that we all have to wear clothes at some point, so we might as well make it pretty. To the OP: as well as the good points others have made, the function of a fashion show is partly to indulge the designers. They’re artists, not taylors - would they continue making beautiful stuff if they didn’t get their moment of glory? And you noticed a fashion show with outlandish costumes, as you have many other times - I have too; would you notice a fashion show of ordinary clothes, the sort that people would actually wear? I’ve actually seen a couple of those, and they’re dull. There’s nothing to catch the eye or talk about. Fashion shows are a spectacle, a grandiose folly, that’s fun to look at. Like other art. They then set the trend for real clothes - floral, maxi dresses are in, gladiator sandals and/or big wedge heels are in. On the catwalk that means someone dressed as a fifteen-foot-wide greenhouse on stilts. 😃 The problems with fashion arise when people feel compelled to buy buy buy, or feel unworthy for not wearing the right stuff. But hell, you get similar problems with food, and we’re not going to decry the existence of food. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/117 "2010-07-11T10:37:11Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I can’t speak for Diosa, but I didn’t assume she was talking in particular about men. On the contrary, it’s usually women who can’t wait to tell other women how shallow and vapid those of us who are interested in ‘girly’ things are. One of the more insidious and disheartening forms of misogyny I run into regularly is women eager to prove how unlike ‘other women’ they are. Yeppers. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/118 "2010-07-11T13:57:35Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t understand that. The majority of people don’t watch them, either, so why would what they choose to buy be influenced by it? The reason there is any influence is because the stores buy it, so that’s what the cool people (who have enough money to buy clothes as soon as they come out) wear, meaning all the uncool people want it, too. Fashion shows only serve the purpose of getting all the stores doing the same thing, and, even then, it’s not like they know immediately what the wearable version is. And how do the department stores know what the cool people will wear? It’s not like fashion designers choose clothing at random, the best ones have a good sense of what people will wear in the future, and display that sense on the runway. Think of it like a power point presentation by a marketing agency on what they think the future trends of web design will be. Then sometimes you can create a trend by telling everyone what you think a trend will be. The fashion shows have this dual role of predicting trends and also setting them, because people can always fall in love with the predictions. And the cool people that set the trends for all the uncool people get their ideas from fashion magazines that are also influenced by fashion shows. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/119 "2010-07-13T02:16:37Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > I have to say that just because you regard it as unimportant, the vast sums of money, people employed, number of magazines and amount of coverage fashion gets means a lot of people in the world think it is important - just not you. > > And as for shallow, do you admire the skill of the sportsmen who’s games you watch? > > Have you ever seen a piece of couture up close? The quality of the craftmanship is something else. All of the embroidery done by hand, the pattern making - some pieces take hundreds of hours of work to make. That’s besides the imagination of the designer. What’s shallow about saying, holy crap that’s beautiful, and impressive, and I’ve love to own it? You get that I’m arguing sports are shallow and unimportant, right? They are. Just like fashion. Yes, I admire the skill of the sportsmen during the prerformance of their mindbogglingly shallow and unimportant jobs. I’m laughing my ass off about the question “What’s so shallow about beauty, and wanting to own something because it’s beautiful?” That’s the very definition of what shallow is. You ladies seem to think shallow is a crime against humanity or something, because your attempted refutations are just silly. I’m a guy. As a guy, I embrace shallow interests as perfectlyu valid. You should try it sometime; it might help relieve the crushing burden of the perceived misogyny you think is swirling all around you. Fashion is shallow and unimportant, just like sports. Deal with it. (Before someone brings up the money thing again, sports is also a multi-billion dollar industry that employs millions of people. Does that make it not “shallow and unimportant?” Of course not. It is still absolutely shallow and unimportant.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/120 "2010-07-13T02:26:37Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > It’s very easy to dismiss fashion as being shallow, vain and unimportant until you remember a) it helps drive the economy, b) many people actually kind of dig it and spend $$ - also driving the economy and c) no one in the fashion industry has received a bail-out of any kind and more money is spent on fashion in the US than cars by a factor of 10 (once you include all of the spin off items such as fragrance, make up ($8 billion/year on just this one), etc. Also if you’ve just finished watching the ridiculous pageantry and ogle-fest that was the World Cup. Useless and expensive, but oh what fun. (Says someone who watched all the games in Viktor & Rolf and Comme des Garçons.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938.md?page=5)