# Fast Food "Nastyness"—featuring Shiva418 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 17, 2003, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753 "2003-08-17T11:43:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/81 "2003-08-19T00:12:57Z")
Actually, she apparently did say something about it. She got all bent out of shape when I listed the suggested courses of action in response to her query. So, nope, no backpedal. But nice try on switching the subject. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/82 "2003-08-19T00:17:23Z")
No, **Monty** , I understand your point. Yes, it would have been better to tell the customer about his sandwich. Again I must say that upon reflection, perhaps she would do things a bit differently, but **I doubt she would tell you that voluntarily.** I wouldn’t, if I were her. And, come on: “a complete lack of guts”? That’s just mudslinging. She did much more than many people her age (or older) would have done. To have a complete lack of guts would have been to continue working there, saying nothing to anyone. Which, IIRC, is what you basically accused her of in the first post you directed her way. (Quote: “You’ve seen it happen and you didn’t do anything about it?”) She didn’t **say** she did nothing; you just assumed that–and then didn’t even acknowledge it when she told you otherwise. My take: you could have a few motives for your **alice** -related posts. One, to help her see how she could have done more, thus improving her (or anyone’s) reaction to a similar future situation, or two, to make yourself feel superior (the implication being that _you_ would have of course done the right thing). Since you didn’t phrase your criticisms in a way that might be accepted by a reasonable person, I’ll have to assume the second option is the correct one. I apologize if my assumption is incorrect. I would recommend, though, that if you truly intend to be helpful and instructive to all the food service workers reading this thread, you might want to communicate your positive intent a bit more clearly. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/83 "2003-08-19T00:19:11Z")
Oops, sorry about the out-of-control bolding. I usually preview, I swear. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/84 "2003-08-19T00:27:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **Actually, she apparently did say something about it. She got all bent out of shape when I listed the suggested courses of action in response to her query. So, nope, no backpedal.** No? Looked to me like you abandoned your tack criticizing **alice** for not reporting the incident to DoH or her superiors in favor of one for not telling the customer. > [@](#): > > \*\*But nice try on switching the subject. \*\* What the hell are you on about now? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/85 "2003-08-19T00:50:50Z")
I’M FUCKING NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FUCKING GUTS WHEN SHE WAS FUCKING 17 DAMN IT YOU MORON! I’M FUCKING TALKING AOBUT HER RATIONALIZING IT AWAY RIGHT FUCKING NOW! ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/86 "2003-08-19T00:58:02Z")
If people don’t understand your point, there’s two (at least) options: 1. They’re morons. 2. You were unclear. Nice to see you immediately leap to #1. ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/87 "2003-08-19T01:24:26Z")
Yes, I see your point, **Monty**. Personally, I can’t imagine why she didn’t unburden her guilty conscience to you, what with your gift for gentle correction and obviously sincere desire to improve the planet. By the way, the word “that” in the below sentence is what’s known as an indefinite pronoun. It’s unfortunate that you did not at some point have an English teacher who told you that indefinite pronouns should be avoided because they obscure clarity. > [@](#): > > NOT TELLING THE POOR CUSTOMER WHO GOT THE CRAP WAS WRONG! It’s the latter stunt that alice is rationalizing away and **that** takes a complete lack of guts. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/88 "2003-08-19T01:47:13Z")
Immediately, huh? Liar. skeptic: The antecedent for _that_ is quite clear in the sentence you quote. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/89 "2003-08-19T02:29:11Z")
**Monty** , maybe she’s not rationalizing anything. Ever thought about that? Perhaps she feels as if the actions she took at the time were the correct ones. For _that_ particular time and _that_ particular situation. A good rule of thumb to follow: if everyone seems to disagree with you, maybe you’re not as right as you think you are. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/90 "2003-08-19T02:45:15Z")
I have to say that I agree with **Monty** as far as his basic principles concerning zero-tolerance of food-altering. As far as the dispute over **alice** ’s cogniscence of the situation and its branches, I must admit that I am lost, except as far as the points pertaining to the situation that I have mentioned. But, the way I see it, **Monty** wasn’t merely addressing **alice** (who is somewhat excused really, IMHO, thanks to both her overall maturity at the time and her repentance, as well as other minor factors), but to anyone else who may have willfully ignored such poor behavior as altering food. I recognize that **alice** ’s overall situation was an unfortuante hodge-podge of events that combined just right at the wrong time. She ought have been a bit more communicative to the proper channels (it is unfortunate that she did not do so), but this is a time for collecting the scattered feathers, not comtemplating how loftily and freely they flew. I’m sure she knows better today, and we would do well to concentrate on this in regards to prevention of further wrong-doing on the part of food-handlers. I feel that she is helping now, however, as she is bringing this hazardous situation more into the light. This will certainly educate those who believe such a situation as food-altering does not exist, although I must say that I am further comforted by reports to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/91 "2003-08-19T02:48:04Z")
There’s an editing issue in my prior post; paragraphs ! and 2 are slightly out or order as far as train-of-thought. Sorry about that; I thought I edited it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/92 "2003-08-19T02:48:41Z")
Joe: You’re right. You’re 100% right. lezlers, I’ll say you’re right also, because I believe you are except about your rule of thumb. FTR: I’m kind of amused that anyone thinks that intentional food adulteration doesn’t exist. p.s. I like Joe’s literary phrases in his last posting. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/93 "2003-08-19T04:30:34Z")
Or, perhaps I took the chicken with me as I left through the back door of the kitchen, telling the district manager that he was a pig. Perhaps previous to this incident - the straw incident - I had rescued a spit-in beverage from a woman and replaced it with a fresh one before she could drink it, even though she was a really colossal bitch. Perhaps my customers always received their food in as good and sanitary manner as was possible for me to present. Of course, none of these facts matter to Monty. That’s because he likes to feel morally superior, and know that his actions are always the best and his solutions to problems are always A#1, irrespective of the situation. This is because he’s a baboon. Well. I’ve got my poo-shields up. Fling away Monty. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/94 "2003-08-19T04:50:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*Or, perhaps I took the chicken with me as I left through the back door of the kitchen… I had rescued a spit-in beverage from a woman and replaced it with a fresh one before she could drink it… my customers always received their food in as good and sanitary manner as was possible for me to present. > > Of course, none of these facts matter to Monty. That’s because he likes to feel morally superior, and know that his actions are always the best and his solutions to problems are always A#1, irrespective of the situation. This is because he’s a baboon. > > Well. I’ve got my poo-shields up. Fling away Monty.\*\* I’m…puzzled, **alice**. Did you really take the chicken and rescue an altered beverage, or are you merely suggesting that if you did, **Monty** would be wrong, while the fact remains that you didn’t? All this apparent sarcasm makes the point hard to find. Moreover, I did not see anywhere in the thread a prior allusion to these actions that you suggest only in this post. Maybe my reading is off (I’m distracted by a mouse-in-the-house mentioned in another thread). But, assuming these actions of yours _are_ true, then I don’t see where it is justified to blame **Monty** for not knowing facts that had no previous mention, at least in this thread. As far as the last point in your post, I saw where he posted not five posts back that he agreed with my last post 100%, in which I said that while I feel you erred at the time, I feel you know better now and that I’m sure those errors came at a very bad and very fertile-for-conflict period. Since he agreed, how is he taking the moral high-ground in this case? It sounds like an amending of any prior accusations (if there _were_ any, that is; I’m lost) towards you and your character; at least, it does to me, and I admit again that I’m distracted IRL. Perhaps I miss something? From a slightly outside point, it appears that, despite your stance against such behavior, that _you_ are flinging poo. Please correct me if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/95 "2003-08-19T06:34:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lezlers \* > \*\*And **spooje** , your post was simply not true. I’ve never seen anyone tamper with someone’s food just for the hell of it. Have you ever worked in food service? \*\* Me? Yes. I’ve washed dishes, been a prep boy and a sandwich maker. That shit wouldn’t fly there, mostly because we all ate there, too. But I think **Alice** has some experience with food tamperers. What? You’ve seen people tamper with food _for a good reason_, just not for the fun of it?? I’ll say it again. ANYONE who would fuck with someone’s food is a coward and all-around miscreant. And is not to be trusted under any circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/96 "2003-08-19T07:45:44Z")
Yeesh. Who the hell spiked **Monty** ’s drink? ---
**Author:** ![Audrey\_Levins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Audrey\_Levins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Audrey_Levins)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/97 "2003-08-19T10:58:51Z")
_shamefaced_ I did, **Coldy.** Hey, he didn’t tip me! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/98 "2003-08-19T12:55:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Immediately, huh? Liar. > \*\* For some one who rakes people over the coals on a regular basis you really are a piece of work. You disagree w/my assesment, that does **not** make me a liar. However, accusing me of being a ‘liar’ because you disagree w/my assement of your actions, does, IMHO, make you an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/99 "2003-08-19T13:52:18Z")
No, the fact that you said I immediately went to that option when I did not is what makes your statement false. As for being an asshole, I’ve long considered you one. I’m sure that comes as no surprise to you. I seem to recall that you recognized that your opinion is of no worth to me. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753/100 "2003-08-19T14:25:43Z")
Difference of opinions is nothing more than that. You seem to be constitutionally unable to recognize that. You jumped all over somebody for not understanding what you wrote when what you wrote was unclear. You did not allow for the option that your words may have been unclear. That type of behavior is what I call “assholic”. This is a large message board, I have no problem believing that any number of people dislike me, you, or whoever. And when some one whose opinion I care about tells me that I’m being too harsh, I tend to listen up. Doesn’t bother me in the least that you don’t want to hear my assesment of your posts here. Doesn’t surprise me in the least that you will reject them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-food-nastyness-featuring-shiva418/195753.md?page=6)