# Fast & Furious.....Exit? \[Eric Holder and Mexican guns\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546 "2011-07-10T21:57:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/1 "2011-07-10T21:57:40Z")
Documentation continues to pile up pointing to a less than truthful Eric Holder [Holder Lied](http://www.salem-news.com/articles/july092011/holder-atf-death-tk.php) Is it really a matter of “IF” anymore regarding Obama throwing him under the bus, or are we just to “WHEN”? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/2 "2011-07-11T01:02:57Z")
If Tim King really has critical information, he should hand it over to someone who can write worth a damn, pronto! Because no light is gonna make it out of the black hole that is that that dude’s ability to write a coherent paragraph. Anyway, from what I can tell, King is just making a simple logical error. He argues that since holder knew about Project Gunrunner, he must have known about every operation in furtherance of that project. Is that all you got? ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/3 "2011-07-11T01:47:50Z")
Guess it brings the question, what is Project Gunrunner without the guns? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/4 "2011-07-11T02:02:36Z")
That question is only raised for people who conflate a particular operation with a broader well-known project in order to feebly attempt to score political points. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/5 "2011-07-11T02:22:06Z")
I think the quality of this “news article” can be judged by these passages: > [@](#): > > As if the information isn’t bad enough, one of our reporters who has spent the last three years working on the border, gathering information on the narco cartels, Robert ‘Tosh’ Plumlee; blew the whistle on the gun walking operation known as, Fast and Furious by filing numerous reports to federal agencies and local law enforcement in May 2009 about these guns walking across the border. These reports were some seven plus months before Brian Terry’s death in December 2010. Mr. Plumlee also reported a number of alleged bodies buried in the desert on the U.S. side of the border that officials in New Mexico, for whatever reasons, refuse to investigate. These bodies, mostly skeletal remains, have been fully photographed and documented with a GPS (Global Positioning System) located by Mr. Plumlee. > [@](#): > > With the government refocusing enforcing laws against sick people who use marijuana, and delivering deadly weapons to Mexico, one of our writers has been causing significant problems for one of the nation’s top pharmaceutical companies. > > Our writer Marianne Skolek, who lost her daughter to an Oxycontin-related respiratory failure, has been a thorn in the side of Purdue Pharmaceuticals for years, writing articles that continually expose the practices of this company that has been exposed for very serious criminal behavior. > > Aided by Marianne’s testimony, along with that of others who lost family members to Oxycontin, two U.S. Attorneys convicted several top level Purdue executives for falsely advertising the drug as both non-lethal and non-addictive. That may stand as one of the most outrageous claims ever made by a supposedly legitimate U.S. business. > > The connection is that long before Eric Holder was lying to Congress over the U.S. role in Border Patrol and Immigration Customs Enforcement agent’s deaths tied to U.S. supplied weapons in Mexico, he was one of a lawyer for Purdue, at this dark point in their business history. > > In the article, Eric Holder negotiated an OxyContin settlement in West Virginia - working for Purdue Pharma!, Ms. Skolek reveals how Holder not only shielded Purdue over falsely advertising the drug Oxycontin which has led to tens of thousands of related deaths, but also how his actions in arranging a settlement actually allowed the drug to become the epidemic it is. That is serious. Keep in mind, this is in an article that is supposedly about Holder’s knowledge of a gun smuggling operation. You can practically hear the writers shouting “Don’t you see? The guns, the drugs, the dead bodies, the Mexican army uniforms, Pancho Villa! It’s all tied together!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/6 "2011-07-11T03:35:54Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Guess it brings the question, what is Project Gunrunner without the guns? Project Runner? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/7 "2011-07-11T04:09:46Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Project Runner? Holder is the guy making our crystals turn black early? Too obscure? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/8 "2011-07-11T04:18:37Z")
The history of gun control is completely built on lies so, no surprise here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/9 "2011-07-11T04:24:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Too obscure? Hardly. Even protein from the sea know that one. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/10 "2011-07-11T05:50:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the quality of this “news article” can be judged by these passages:Keep in mind, this is in an article that is supposedly about Holder’s knowledge of a gun smuggling operation. What’s idiotic is to try to smear Holder by talking about his lawyer days. Those guys seem to think that a rapist’s lawyer is probably pushing for a rape agenda (also, what kind of serious newspaper would let a journalist that has lost someone in a medical/drug mishap keep on covering the case or even encourage her in a crusade?). ---
**Author:** ![sprale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sprale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sprale)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/11 "2011-07-11T21:53:32Z")
[David Codrea](http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/david-codrea) has written quite a few articles on the Gunrunner/Gunwalker scandal with more than a few valid points as to it’s legitimacy. Back in March, he wrote that it results in an [international incident](http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/project-gunwalker-now-an-international-incident), since it would have had to have been approved for action and funding at a high level (since the Mexican government appears shocked at the incident, presenting them as not being involved or aware). > [@](#): > > The big question now? How will Secretary of State Hillary Clinton handle her end of things, now that State has been irrevocably dragged into Project Gunwalker? He also writes about the [funding and approval required](http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/rediscovered-infomration-on-project-gunrunner-leading-to-misconceptions) for the project to have moved forward, though misinformation makes it tough to sort out the facts now that it has gone into the past. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/12 "2011-07-11T22:16:38Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The history of gun control is completely built on lies so, no surprise here. This “gun control” method resulted in a bunch of guns not being controlled. Still a bit too strict for you? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/13 "2011-08-30T19:09:23Z")
Is this the right place to add this: ATF Director Reassigned; U.S. Attorney Out Amid ‘Fast and Furious’ Uproar Read more: [ATF Director Reassigned; U.S. Attorney Out Amid 'Fast and Furious' Uproar | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/30/sources-atf-director-to-be-reassigned-amid-fast-and-furious-uproar/#ixzz1WXaZiR3s) I hadn’t heard much about this until today. Doesn’t sound good. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fast-furious-exit-eric-holder-and-mexican-guns/588546/14 "2011-08-30T19:29:10Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > [Holder Lied](http://www.salem-news.com/articles/july092011/holder-atf-death-tk.php) Omigod, that website is freakin’ _adorable_! _Pinches flickster’s pudgy little cheeks._