# Fastest 1st-worst-1st or worst-1st-worst **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 7, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367 "2009-12-07T21:08:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/1 "2009-12-07T21:08:35Z")
Whats the fewest seasons it’s taken any MLB, NBA or NFL team to go from having the worst record in the league to winning the championship and then back to the worst record? Or alternatively the other way… championship to worst record to championship? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/2 "2009-12-07T21:18:44Z")
Well, I was going to set a starting point with the KC Royals, but it appears they were never the worst team in the league before they won the World Series in 1985. The Mets: 1967: 61-101 1969: 100-62, Won WS 1977: 65-97 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/3 "2009-12-07T21:21:47Z")
The Boston Braves were in last place on July 4, 1914 and came back to win the pennant and World Series. I think “inside the same season” is going to tie for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/4 "2009-12-07T21:22:58Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Well, I was going to set a starting point with the KC Royals, but it appears they were never the worst team in the league before they won the World Series in 1985. > > The Mets: > 1967: 61-101 > 1969: 100-62, Won WS > 1977: 65-97 The Minnesota Twins managed Worst-1st-Worst-1st in a single decade: 1982: 60-102, 7th of 7 1987: 87-75, Won WS 1990: 74-88, 7th of 7 1991: 95-67, Won WS ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/5 "2009-12-07T21:34:57Z")
Using only winning the division as a metric, I wonder if there’s a franchise that can match the Oakland As, who have gone first to worst five times in their history (and worst to first four times). ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/6 "2009-12-07T21:39:21Z")
Well, the Dallas Cowboys went from a league-worst 1-15 in 1989 to winning the Super Bowl after the 1992 season and the following season. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/7 "2009-12-07T21:49:38Z")
97 Marlins-WS Champs 98 Marlins- 54-108 03 Marlins -WS Champs 07 Marlins last in division 71-91 ---
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/8 "2009-12-07T22:01:56Z")
In the NSW Rugby League South Sydney managed to go from 1st to last in one year. 1989 18 wins 1 draw 3 losses 1990 2 wins 20 losses ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/9 "2009-12-07T22:03:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Boston Braves were in last place on July 4, 1914 and came back to win the pennant and World Series. I think “inside the same season” is going to tie for the record. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Using only winning the division as a metric, I wonder if there’s a franchise that can match the Oakland As, who have gone first to worst five times in their history (and worst to first four times). > [@kidchameleon](#): > > Well, the Dallas Cowboys went from a league-worst 1-15 in 1989 to winning the Super Bowl after the 1992 season and the following season. > [@mrpayday](#): > > In the NSW Rugby League South Sydney managed to go from 1st to last in one year. > > 1989 18 wins 1 draw 3 losses > 1990 2 wins 20 losses I think you guys misread the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/10 "2009-12-07T22:04:34Z")
The 1997-1998 Chicago Bulls went from the best record (62-20) in the NBA and 6-time National Champions to worst record (13-37) in the Eastern Conference in the strike shortened 1998-1999 season followed by another last place finish (17-65) in the East in the 1999-2000 season. If not for the lowly Clippers they’d have had the worst record in the entire NBA in 99-00, and considering the stretch of greatness that preceded 1998 that mark is tough to beat. Thank you, Crumbs Krause. In the same year, the 1998 St. Louis Rams went from 4-12, last in the NFC West, to Super Bowl Champions with a NFC best 13-3 record in 1999. If not for a bizarrely lopsided couple of seasons this would stand out more, because in 1998 there were 6 teams with 4-12 or 3-13 records and in 1999 there were 4 teams with 13-3 or better records including one 14-2 record from the Jags of all teams. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/11 "2009-12-07T22:06:42Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > The 1997-1998 Chicago Bulls went from the best record (62-20) in the NBA and 6-time National Champions to worst record (13-37) in the Eastern Conference in the strike shortened 1998-1999 season followed by another last place finish (17-65) in the East in the 1999-2000 season. If not for the lowly Clippers they’d have had the worst record in the entire NBA in 99-00, and considering the stretch of greatness that preceded 1998 that mark is tough to beat. Thank you, Crumbs Krause. > > In the same year, the 1998 St. Louis Rams went from 4-12, last in the NFC West, to Super Bowl Champions with a NFC best 13-3 record in 1999. If not for a bizarrely lopsided couple of seasons this would stand out more, because in 1998 there were 6 teams with 4-12 or 3-13 records and in 1999 there were 4 teams with 13-3 or better records including one 14-2 record from the Jags of all teams. Mebbe the OP needs to be made more clear. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/12 "2009-12-07T22:10:18Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Mebbe the OP needs to be made more clear. Yeah, I suppose so. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/13 "2009-12-07T22:11:34Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > I think you guys misread the OP. No, I don’t think they did. They all clearly worded their parameter exceptions in their posts. And they were all interesting - why do need to eliminate all related discussion that’s interesting because it doesn’t tightly construe to the OP’s initial query? ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/14 "2009-12-07T22:18:46Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > No, I don’t think they did. They all clearly worded their parameter exceptions in their posts. And they were all interesting - why do need to eliminate all related discussion that’s interesting because it doesn’t tightly construe to the OP’s initial query? Yes they did.The question asked isn’t being answered. We can post 100 of teams that went 1st to last or last to 1st,which will become very uninteresting. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/15 "2009-12-07T22:24:16Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > Yes they did.The question asked isn’t being answered. > > We can post 100 of teams that went 1st to last or last to 1st,which will become very uninteresting. Well, I posted about a team that went first to worst to first to worst to first to worst to first to worst to first to worst (in the course of 95 years). But that apparently wasn’t interesting either. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/16 "2009-12-07T23:33:33Z")
I don’t think that being worst in a division counts for much. After all, applied to football, that’s easy to accomplish. I think you need to limit it to teams that went from the worst record in the league, to the best result (winning the championship) to the worst in the league (or vice versa). Thus, the post about the Mets would apply, but not so sure that the one about the Twins would. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/17 "2009-12-07T23:49:24Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I think you need to limit it to teams that went from the worst record in the league, to the best result (winning the championship) to the worst in the league (or vice versa). Thus, the post about the Mets would apply, but not so sure that the one about the Twins would. The Twins were only the second-worst in the American League that year (the Yankees, of all teams, were worse). There were also a couple National League teams with worse records. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/18 "2009-12-08T00:12:36Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Well, I posted about a team that went first to worst to first to worst to first to worst to first to worst to first to worst (in the course of 95 years). But that apparently wasn’t interesting either. I’m just pointing out that the OP is being misread.Your post was interesting. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/19 "2009-12-08T00:36:43Z")
Certainly, this is one of those topics where any interesting factoid is, by nature, interesting. But I was specifically asking about teams that were the worst in the entire league (ie, all of MLB or NFL). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367/20 "2009-12-08T01:46:55Z")
I thought the OP was pretty clear. In baseball, for first-worst-first, I’m sure it’s got to be the Twins, who did it in a span of five seasons from 1987 (World Series champions) to 1990 (last place) to 1991 (World Series champs again.) (A noteworthy bit of trivia is that both competitors in the 1991 World Series, the champion Twins and NL champ Braves, had finished last the previous year. The Braves, however, hadn’t won a championship in many years so don’t qualify for the OP’s challenge.) For worst-first-worst, the Marlins have already been cited, having gone from last in 1994 to World Series champions in 1997 to dead last again in 1998. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-1st-worst-1st-or-worst-1st-worst/520367.md?page=2)