# Fastest subsonic trans-Atlantic crossing - 4' 56
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [February 10, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709 "2020-02-10T02:42:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/1 "2020-02-10T02:42:02Z")
> **[British Airways Sets Record, Crossing The Atlantic In Under 5 Hours In Strong...](https://www.wbur.org/npr/804266975/british-airways-sets-speed-record-crossing-the-atlantic-in-under-5-hours)**
>
> Propelled by the jet stream, Flight BA112 topped a ground speed of 800 mph, by one expert's estimate. It traveled from New York's JFK to London's Heathrow in 4 hours, 56 minutes overnight Saturday.
By using a spectacular jet stream, they cut well over an hour off the time from NY to London. They may have been traveling over 800 MPH ground speed. 4 hours and 56 minutes!
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### Author:  [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/2 "2020-02-10T06:38:00Z")
That’s impressive. So how fast was the tailwind?
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### Author:  [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/3 "2020-02-10T07:08:57Z")
Apparently, the supersonic (i.e. Concorde) record is just under 3 hours. That strikes me as a lot of palaver and expense to save 2 hours.
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### Author:  [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/4 "2020-02-10T07:18:11Z")
Meanwhile, the associated weather on the ground:
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51439152](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51439152)
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/5 "2020-02-10T11:27:28Z")
> [@capn carl](#):
>
> that’s impressive. So how fast was the tailwind?
150 mph
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/6 "2020-02-10T13:30:18Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> 150 mph
Max airspeed for a 747 is reported to be about 570 MPH, so if they were hitting a max of 800 MPH ground speed at some point, then their tailwind was (at least briefly) 230 MPH.
AIUI, the extremely violent clear-air turbulence that occasional afflicts commercial flights is related to mixing at the edges of the high-speed jet stream with more stable adjacent air. Does flying in such a crazy-fast jet stream present any exceptional hazard? was this any sort of risky endeavor?
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/7 "2020-02-10T13:41:06Z")
What I’m wondering is what the actual gate-to-gate time was. Because in my experience, you have to wait in line at JFK before the plane can taxi to the runway, and then on landing, the plane seems to taxi around for half an hour or more before eventually finding its way to the gate. Particularly annoying if my bladder is bursting.
Also slightly surprised that this was a 747. I think the US-based carriers have all stopped flying them.
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/8 "2020-02-10T13:55:45Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> Also slightly surprised that this was a 747. I think the US-based carriers have all stopped flying them.
[https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=846599](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=846599)
Yes, there are no US based airlines that use 747 for passenger flights, but they are still in service on many routes by foreign carriers.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/9 "2020-02-10T16:26:40Z")
> [@williambaskerville](#):
>
> Apparently, the supersonic (i.e. Concorde) record is just under 3 hours.
And then there is this:
> [@](#):
>
> The SR-71 also holds the “speed over a recognized course” record for flying from New York to London—distance 3,461.53 miles (5,570.79 km), 1,806.964 miles per hour (2,908.027 km/h), and an elapsed time of 1 hour 54 minutes and 56.4 seconds—set on 1 September 1974, while flown by U.S. Air Force pilot James V. Sullivan and Noel F. Widdifield, reconnaissance systems officer (RSO).[122] This equates to an average speed of about Mach 2.72, including deceleration for in-flight refueling. Peak speeds during this flight were likely closer to the declassified top speed of over Mach 3.2. For comparison, the best commercial Concorde flight time was 2 hours 52 minutes and the Boeing 747 averages 6 hours 15 minutes
> **[Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird | Records](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird#Records)**
>
> The SR-71 was the world's fastest and highest-flying air-breathing operational manned aircraft throughout its career and it still holds that record. On 28 July 1976, SR-71 serial number 61-7962, piloted by then Captain Robert Helt, broke the world record: an "absolute altitude record" of 85,069 feet (25,929 m). Several aircraft have exceeded this altitude in zoom climbs, but not in sustained flight. That same day SR-71 serial number 61-7958 set an absolute speed record of 1 The SR-71 also holds t...
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### Author:  [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/10 "2020-02-11T01:22:53Z")
I hope there weren’t any Twilight Zone fans on the flight. There’s an episode where a plane from London to New York starts accelerating suddenly and that causes it to go back in time.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/11 "2020-02-11T07:14:25Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> Max airspeed for a 747 is reported to be about 570 MPH, so if they were hitting a max of 800 MPH ground speed at some point, then their tailwind was (at least briefly) 230 MPH.
>
> AIUI, the extremely violent clear-air turbulence that occasional afflicts commercial flights is related to mixing at the edges of the high-speed jet stream with more stable adjacent air. Does flying in such a crazy-fast jet stream present any exceptional hazard? was this any sort of risky endeavor?
Planes fly in the jet-streams all the time. There is a chance of turbulence around the edges of the jet, mostly on the lower polar side, but it’s rare for the turbulence to be severe.
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/12 "2020-02-11T14:11:10Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#):
>
> Planes fly in the jet-streams all the time. There is a chance of turbulence around the edges of the jet, mostly on the lower polar side, but it’s rare for the turbulence to be severe.
That’s not the question. Does flying in a faster than usual jet stream turn what is normally an annoyance into something dangerous.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/13 "2020-02-11T14:51:26Z")
> [@Ruken](#):
>
> That’s not the question. Does flying in a faster than usual jet stream turn what is normally an annoyance into something dangerous.
This, yes. To extend the question, commercial flights sometimes encounter turbulence so severe that it injures or kills passengers (generally the ones who are not wearing seatbelts and hit their heads on the ceiling). Such dangerous turbulence is admittedly very rare, but would this unusually fast jet stream present a significantly greater risk of that happening?
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2020, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/14 "2020-02-12T07:42:33Z")
stendec
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### Author:  [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/15 "2020-02-12T13:03:07Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#):
>
> stendec
Cool story, brah.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/16 "2020-02-12T21:08:54Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> This, yes. To extend the question, commercial flights sometimes encounter turbulence so severe that it injures or kills passengers (generally the ones who are not wearing seatbelts and hit their heads on the ceiling). Such dangerous turbulence is admittedly very rare, but would this unusually fast jet stream present a significantly greater risk of that happening?
It’s probably more on point to ask if there is a greater risk of _unforecast_ severe turbulence in a stronger jet-stream. The pilots and planners get given SIGWX (significant weather) charts like this, [https://www.aviationweather.gov/data/iffdp/2108.pdf](https://www.aviationweather.gov/data/iffdp/2108.pdf). The jet-streams are shown as bold black lines with the windspeed depicted by triangles and lines. A triangle is 50 knots and a line is 10 knots. There appears to be a jet-stream in the middle of that chart that’s over 300 knots! There are also areas shown by dashed lines which represent clear air turbulence (CAT). You wouldn’t normally plan through forecast _severe_ turbulence but flying through moderate turbulence and adjusting altitude to find the smoothest “ride” is pretty common. The danger then is that you could encounter severe CAT when the forecast was for none or just moderate. I don’t know whether this is more likely to happen, ie the turbulence is not as predictable, in a stronger jet-stream. I suspect not.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [February 12, 2020, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/17 "2020-02-12T23:10:02Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> What I’m wondering is what the actual gate-to-gate time was.
To answer my own question, the plane spent 28 minutes taxiing at JFK and five minutes in London, for an [overall flight time of 5 hours and 27 minutes](https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW112/history/20200208/2340Z/KJFK/EGLL).
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [February 13, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fastest-subsonic-trans-atlantic-crossing-4-56/847709/18 "2020-02-13T03:22:57Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#):
>
> Cool story, brah.
It is, actually.
> **[1947 BSAA Avro Lancastrian Star Dust accident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_BSAA_Avro_Lancastrian_Star_Dust_accident)**
>
> On 2 August 1947, Star Dust, a British South American Airways (BSAA) Avro Lancastrian airliner on a flight from Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Santiago, Chile, crashed into Mount Tupungato in the Argentine Andes. An extensive search operation failed to locate the wreckage, despite covering the area of the crash site. The fate of the aircraft and its occupants remained unknown for over fifty years, giving rise to various conspiracy theories about its disappearance.
> In the late 1990s, pieces of w...
Sew your name into your undies, people.