# Fat America **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 12, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914 "2011-12-12T15:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/181 "2011-12-14T21:48:53Z")
> [@voguevixen](#): > > I agree with this. I work with a woman who is severely obese to the point she’s gasping for air as she walks. You would have to be shoveling down food 24/7 to be that heavy were it food-related, surely. I mean “hot dog eating contest” eating. > > … > Re: large portion sizes. I don’t think people actually EAT an entire large portion at once - they take some home in a to-go box. There’s a pasta dish I get at Chili’s that I manage to get three whole meals out of. The only time I have seen an outright brassy instance of overeating was when I was in my twenties and my teenage brother and his friend came out to visit me when I moved to SF. The friend was about 6’6", skinny as a rail, and ate an entire large pizza, a salad, half the breadsticks, and part of OUR pizza. > > Re: vanity sizing/stores like Wal-Mart catering to fat people. I’m 5’1" and about 165 pounds. 165 is not HORRIBLE but because I’m so short it’s technically fat. Most stores I go into I struggle to find things that fit well. K-mart? I’m a size medium, and even then my pants are a little loose around the waist. > … I’m thinking you’re serious, forgive me if you’re not. These three statements are completely nuts. First, the only worthwhile definition of overeating is to consume more than you burn off or, um, excrete. Your teenage brother’s friend was not overeating, unless he didn’t pay for it, not if he was stick thin. You are aware that even if you only overeat by a mere 2oz a day you will gain 45 lbs? You get to breath wheezing fat in much less than a decade. And once overweight, it becomes much harder to lose weight than to never have gained it: your metabolism shifts, and it is harder to exercise. I’m sure eating less than fit people around you and gaining weight is very frustrating and depressing. 5’ 1" and 165 lbs is not “technically fat”. My wife is 5’ 1", weighs 50 lbs less and would lose weight if she exercised. I am 6’ 2", and I don’t weigh that much. And no, I don’t have an eating problem, nor do I look emaciated. (If I have an eating problem it is the same as your teenage friend - I just ate a large bacon and pepperoni pizza on Thursday. When I eat out, I always eat the entire thing, unless there is something there I don’t like, and some of my wife’s. BUT: I hardly ever eat out: road trips, once a week at lunch, and maybe once a month for dinner. My typical lunch is a very large salad without dressing, some fruit, and a nut and rolled oats trail mix. And my hobbies are running, triathlons, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/182 "2011-12-14T22:19:07Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I think most people gain weight through calorie creep. They didn’t always eat 3000 calories a day. Likely they ate normally at one point and then slowly upped their daily calorie count. If you can get to a good weight it’s not hard to maintain it. You just have to fight the calorie creep. > > One thing about losing weight–it is much easier if you combine it with exercise. If you just try to lose weight through diet alone, your body will complain when it has to go to your fat stores. It will make you feel hungry, sluggish and grumpy. Your body is a fat hoarder and will do anything it can to hang onto its fat. It panics when it has to burn fat for no good reason. > > However, if you are exercising your body doesn’t mind burning fat. It doesn’t complain. It doesn’t worry that it is starving to death. It just burns the fat for fuel. When you’re done working out, your body forgets it had that fat and doesn’t compel you to replace it. And after exercise it will ramp up your metabolism. It repairs any damage and makes sure your body is energetic for any upcoming activity. > > Diet alone will be a test of willpower over your hunger. Exercise alone will just take off a few pounds. But diet and exercise will produce consistent change to your weight over the long term. I think a lot of people also gain weight the same way I did - when I was young, I had a crazy high metabolism. People warned me that would slack off in my mid 20’s, but I didn’t believe them, and I kept eating and living the same way I always had. Which meant I crept up a few pounds a year and now I need to lose some of them. (I’m 5’7" and when I started Weight Watchers a few weeks ago I weighed 168, now I’ve crept down to 162, woot.) Just eating a little too much every day and taking a job that’s sitting more than standing I went from size 2 pants to size 14 in five years (granted, I pretty much only gain weight between my knees and my waist.) The thing is, I haven’t gone hungry (gasp) or anything - mostly Weight Watchers has gotten me to quit snacking on candy from dishes all day and to cut beer down to mostly a weekend thing. No feeling of deprivation whatsoever. It ain’t no thing. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/183 "2011-12-15T00:02:01Z")
When I left my field job for a sedentary desk job, my weight started to creep up. It wasn’t just that I was sedentary, but I was also eating out for lunch. After just a few months, I was close to being on the border of normal and overweight. I didn’t notice that I was getting a little soft until someone took my picture. That’s when I realized that my bedroom mirror had been lyin’ to me. So that’s when I started to walk. The zen of walking extended to the zen of lunch-making. After three months, I started noticing changes in how my clothes fit. Three years later, I’m still keeping up my habits, and now I’m bordering on underweight and normal. But it’s weird. I still don’t see a major difference in myself in the mirror. But when I look at pictures of myself, I’m freaked out at how thin I’ve become. So you cannot trust mirrors. The mirror you use every day will reflect what you’re accustomed to seeing. And you can always rationalize away what other mirrors show. I remember thinking “This mirror always makes me look fat! I need the good mirror!” And because I don’t really ever wear tight-tight clothes, it took a while for me to notice when things were getting snug. Sometimes I see people on the street wearing ill-fitting pants. Like, guys with panty-lines. They usually are not fat people, but people who are approaching fat. I’m betting their mirrors are playing tricks on them. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/184 "2011-12-15T00:12:50Z")
> [@SlowMindThinking](#): > > 5’ 1" and 165 lbs is not “technically fat”. I’m glad someone else mentioned this, as I was going to as well. **voguevixen** I know BMI isn’t a sure-fire method of assessment, but your height/weight ratio gives a BMI of 31.8 which is defined as “very overweight”. My g/f is the same height as you but 55 lbs lighter and is in the “healthy weight” zone - and not even at the bottom of it. I’m 5’6" guy and I weigh 15 lbs less than you, and am at the upper level of my ‘healthy’ BMI which means I could stand to lose a few pounds or at least tone up. None of which is meant to make you feel bad - though I realise it may, and I apologise for being blunt - but this may represent a good illustration of the state of denial that others are pointing at in this thread. > [@smokey78](#): > > There is simply no reason to be fat in England! And also their largest size for women is a U.S. size 12. If US size 12 is [UK size 14](http://www.85b.org/dress_conv.php), then this statement is incorrect. ‘Designer’ stores may have only skinny sizing but I think regular stores carry dresses that go up to 18 (US 16), and Primark, the most prominent budget clothing retailer in the UK, goes up to 18/20 which I guess is up to US 18. We have plenty fat people in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/185 "2011-12-15T00:14:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Elret > I guess it must be true that people just don’t realize it, but I don’t understand how someone with the most basic level of intelligence can’t see that they can get 5 pounds of carrots for about a buck, or an 18 oz bag of Doritos for 3 or 4 bucks and still believe that healthy food is expensive. I have lived poor, and when you live poor, true poverty and no time to cook because you are working two jobs; you eat three $1.00 items off of the McDonald’s value menu each day, and you are _skinny_ and unhealthy. Most people who are poor and fat are not actually poor- they just don’t have enough money to have the large-screen tv, xbox 360, AND still afford to go to expensive restaurants that use good ingredients and portion control as well as exercise… The worst part of being working poor (which isn’t the same as actual poverty) is that the education and understanding of how to be healthy just isn’t there. Most people don’t understand HOW to be healthy- it isn’t that being poor is a bar to being healthy. My parents were poor my entire life, and either cooked cheap food and ate only a little of it as they couldn’t afford more, or were working so hard in physical jobs that being skinny was the issue. I have never understood why people buy the ‘being fat and poor is easy!’ It isn’t any easier than being not-poor and fat. The issue is education and habit, not poor or not poor, unless you are literally living subsistance. True poor would love to be fat- they might not need to eat for a few weeks and wouldn’t get sick! I don’t mean you can only afford one car for your 5 person family- I mean you are living on $500 a month for five people, no food stamps, either because you aren’t a citizen or you are too proud- and paying rent out of that! No car, and trying to make it work with food and childcare. Try to be fat in that situation. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/186 "2011-12-15T00:43:55Z")
If you are having to work two jobs to keep a crappy apartment over you and your five kids’ heads, it’s kind of hard not to see that as poor. When most people talk about poor in America, we’re talking about working poor. “Working poor” is an entirely different level of poverty than living-on-a-dollar-a-day poverty. The two aren’t comparable, but that doesn’t mean “working poor” people don’t have challenges that wealthier people don’t have. I start work at 8:30 and get off at 5:15. No one forces me to work overtime or to do a double-shift. That alone makes me pretty well-to-do. People with money have more leisure time. Time to spend on cooking, exercise, chores, and all the fun/relaxing activities that we need to make it through life sanely. The working poor have less time for cooking, exercise, chores, and fun because they tend to work more hours and have more hectic schedules. Human beings are strange. If they have limited time, they will tend to fill it with easier activities. It is a luxury to purposelessly fill it with harder activities. The chores have to be done. Relaxation and fun must be had for life to be meaningful. But there’s a McDonald’s to take care of the cooking. And exercise is optional, plus hard. It is not difficult to understand why people who are poor–the working poor–tend to be fat. If you’ve got just a couple of hours to yourself, why wouldn’t you want to spend it watching TV instead of jogging? It makes perfect sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/187 "2011-12-15T00:56:33Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I’m glad someone else mentioned this, as I was going to as well. **voguevixen** I know BMI isn’t a sure-fire method of assessment, but your height/weight ratio gives a BMI of 31.8 which is defined as “very overweight”. My g/f is the same height as you but 55 lbs lighter and is in the “healthy weight” zone - and not even at the bottom of it. I’m 5’6" guy and I weigh 15 lbs less than you, and am at the upper level of my ‘healthy’ BMI which means I could stand to lose a few pounds or at least tone up. None of which is meant to make you feel bad - though I realise it may, and I apologise for being blunt - but this may represent a good illustration of the state of denial that others are pointing at in this thread. If US size 12 is [UK size 14](http://www.85b.org/dress_conv.php), then this statement is incorrect. ‘Designer’ stores may have only skinny sizing but I think regular stores carry dresses that go up to 18 (US 16), and Primark, the most prominent budget clothing retailer in the UK, goes up to 18/20 which I guess is up to US 18. We have plenty fat people in the UK. Yeah, I have to say, I’m 5’7" and 160something and I’m definitely overweight - nearing chubby, at least to me. And those extra height inches are a LOT of weight, I’ve noticed among friends. ---
**Author:** ![SlowMindThinking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@SlowMindThinking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlowMindThinking)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/188 "2011-12-15T01:02:02Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It is not difficult to understand why people who are poor–the working poor–tend to be fat. If you’ve got just a couple of hours to yourself, why wouldn’t you want to spend it watching TV instead of jogging? It makes perfect sense to me. I agree with everything you said, except this part. I know plenty of runners who meet your definition of poor. One of the fastest guys I know has had two jobs since I met him. One trick is to be a form of exercise that is at least as pleasurable as watching TV. (For me, that would be almost all sports.) I think you become who your friends are. If your friends meet at bars or restaurants, and eat or drink as part of being together, you will all tend to gain weight. If you watch TV with friends (and family) you will be sedentary, and gain weight. If your friends meet at 6 am to run together, then you tend to become a runner, and very few gain weight. I think the working poor are more likely to live in a neighborhood for which a cheap form of exercise, like running, is less pleasurable, if not outright dangerous. So, their friends are more likely to be sedentary. I think those that work two jobs are more likely to be too tired to pick sport over sedentary activities, and that their friends are likewise. It is not that that they are more likely to want to watch TV as opposed to running. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/189 "2011-12-15T02:46:29Z")
The repeated references to exercise as a solution to obesity are misplaced. It’s been [determined](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-exercise-lead-to-weight-loss/) [pretty](http://www.drbriffa.com/2009/08/12/does-exercise-promote-weight-loss-no/) [definitively](http://www.fitsugar.com/Study-Shows-Exercise-Wont-Aid-Weight-Loss-6009325) [that](http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercise-dieting-public-health) [exercise](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30826120/ns/health-fitness/t/exercise-not-likely-rev-your-metabolism/) [doesn’t](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=does-exercise-really-make&page=3) really make [much](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13821677/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/weighing-diet-vs-exercise-losing-pounds/) difference in the long run of [weight](http://www.yalemedicalgroup.org/stw/Page.asp?PageID=STW000752) loss, and actually tends to be [counterproductive](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1914974,00.html). Certainly exercise is something we should all strive to get much more of, but not for the purpose of losing weight. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/190 "2011-12-15T02:52:35Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The repeated references to exercise as a solution to obesity are misplaced. It’s been [determined](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-exercise-lead-to-weight-loss/) [pretty](http://www.drbriffa.com/2009/08/12/does-exercise-promote-weight-loss-no/) [definitively](http://www.fitsugar.com/Study-Shows-Exercise-Wont-Aid-Weight-Loss-6009325) [that](http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercise-dieting-public-health) [exercise](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30826120/ns/health-fitness/t/exercise-not-likely-rev-your-metabolism/) [doesn’t](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=does-exercise-really-make&page=3) really make [much](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13821677/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/weighing-diet-vs-exercise-losing-pounds/) difference in the long run of [weight](http://www.yalemedicalgroup.org/stw/Page.asp?PageID=STW000752) loss, and actually tends to be [counterproductive](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1914974,00.html). > > Certainly exercise is something we should all strive to get much more of, but not for the purpose of losing weight. Yeesh almighty. You ever wonder why you have built so many of your beliefs around proving that you being fat is not your fault? Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/191 "2011-12-15T03:10:14Z")
One of the (many) reasons I haven’t traveled in Europe is because of what I keep hearing about the portion sizes. I fear I will have to order multiple entrees in order to not be hungry. 2-3 meals from one American restaurant meal? Seriously? I clean my plate, then have a snack a couple hours later. Can you give me an idea of where you’re going, because I will have to go check it out to see if I can get more food for my buck - I can’t afford to eat out often as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/192 "2011-12-15T03:17:02Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The repeated references to exercise as a solution to obesity are misplaced. It’s been [determined](http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-exercise-lead-to-weight-loss/) [pretty](http://www.drbriffa.com/2009/08/12/does-exercise-promote-weight-loss-no/) [definitively](http://www.fitsugar.com/Study-Shows-Exercise-Wont-Aid-Weight-Loss-6009325) [that](http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/sep/19/exercise-dieting-public-health) [exercise](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30826120/ns/health-fitness/t/exercise-not-likely-rev-your-metabolism/) [doesn’t](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=does-exercise-really-make&page=3) really make [much](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13821677/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition/t/weighing-diet-vs-exercise-losing-pounds/) difference in the long run of [weight](http://www.yalemedicalgroup.org/stw/Page.asp?PageID=STW000752) loss, and actually tends to be [counterproductive](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1914974,00.html). > > Certainly exercise is something we should all strive to get much more of, but not for the purpose of losing weight. Wha? Are you seriously saying that burning calories via exercise doesn’t result in weight loss??? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/193 "2011-12-15T03:18:23Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Absolutely it’s reasonable… eating less and staying hungry is your only option. No, it is not your only option. I have lost 50 pounds since March and I am not hungry at all, because I manage my body’s fat regulation system by avoiding carbohydrates, especially from grains and sugar. Within that restriction, I eat whenever I like, as much as I like, and I specifically and deliberately eat plenty of fat. I feel good, I look good, and my relationship and attitude towards food is completely different than it is if I eat a “balanced diet”. And if I eat a “balanced diet” the only way I lose weight is via very painful starvation, which makes me completely obsessed with food, miserable, tired, and it’s not very effective. That becomes intolerable very quickly, and my body is screaming at me to eat. So when I can’t take it anymore I find my appetite is unquenchable and whatever I lost I regain plus more - like every fat person who ever went on a calorie-restriction diet. And totally normal weight, healthy [people who went on a calorie restriction diet.](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201103/dieting-can-make-you-lose-your-mind) Here’s what starvation dieting does to you - 36 healthy young men were put on 1600 calories per day for a goal of 2.5 lbs of weight loss per week. Not fat men, normal, healthy young men. > [@](#): > > They described lethargy, irritability, anxiety that approached each time they were to learn how much they were allowed to eat the following week. They had to institute a buddy system so that none of the men were allowed to leave the dormitory alone, as one man went off diet and had to be excused from the study. They had dizziness, cold intolerance (requesting heavy blankets even in the middle of summer), muscle soreness, hair loss, reduced coordination, edema, and ringing in the ears. Some had to withdraw from their university classes because they did not have the capability to concentrate. Their [sex](http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/sex) drive disappeared. **They became obsessed with food, eating with elaborate rituals (which eating disorder patients also do)** and adding water to their plates to make the food last longer. Many collected cookbooks and recipes. One man, tempted by the odor from a bakery, bought a dozen doughnuts and gave them to children in the street just to watch them eat. Originally, the participants were allowed to chew gum, but when many of the men went to chewing about 40 sticks a day, it was decided that gum would affect the experiment and it was disallowed. > > Only 32 of the original 36 completed the semistarvation period. One man who broke diet admitted to stealing scrapings from the garbage cans, stealing and eating raw rutabagas, and stopping at shops to eat sundaes. Two of the men suffered severe psychological stress - one became **suicidal** , and another cut off three of his fingers in an act of **self-mutilation**. Both men were taken to a psychiatric hospital. > The 3 month refeeding period involved trying several different combinations of protein, vitamins, and levels of calories. Dizziness, apathy and lethargy improved first, but persistent hunger, weakness, and loss of sex drive persisted for several months. The men described “a year long cavity” that needed to be filled. T **he day after they were finally released from the study, one of the men was hospitalized to have his stomach pumped after binging.** I think you and I have very different views of what constitutes “reasonable”. Calorie restriction dieting is intolerable; it creates compulsive eaters and bingers, and guarantees that you will end up fatter and fatter and fatter the more you subject yourself to it. When you see the superobese, you are almost certainly seeing someone who has done a LOT of dieting, because that’s what starvation dieting does to you. The fatter they are, the more likely it is that they have dieted many times, and done so with great temporary success. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/194 "2011-12-15T03:22:34Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Wha? Are you seriously saying that burning calories via exercise doesn’t result in weight loss??? Evidently you didn’t follow the links. There were nine in what you quoted, ranging from the NY Times to Yale, all saying the same: exercise just isn’t very effective for losing weight. It’s not my opinion, it’s what the research shows. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/195 "2011-12-15T03:24:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Yeesh almighty. If you have a quarrel with the research, Rand, I think you need to take it up with researchers, not me. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/196 "2011-12-15T03:34:38Z")
> [@Bloodless\_Turnip](#): > > Wha? Are you seriously saying that burning calories via exercise doesn’t result in weight loss??? I think the point is that exercise alone will not produce a very large reduction in weight over the long term. Without diet control, the exercise will perhaps stop the person gaining more weight or maybe they will lose a few pounds. But if the person does not also make a real effort to modify their eating habits, the exercise won’t produce long term weight loss. The person will keep eating with their old habits, which is probably to eat whatever they want until they feel like stopping. It’s practically impossible to out exercise uncontrolled eating. Most people won’t commit to multi-hour a day workouts for the rest of their life which is what it would take to lose weight by exercise alone. If you are committed to changing your eating habits, exercise is a great way to help help melt the weight off. But the key part to long term weight loss is to modify what you eat in the long term. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/197 "2011-12-15T03:35:04Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > One of the (many) reasons I haven’t traveled in Europe is because of what I keep hearing about the portion sizes. I fear I will have to order multiple entrees in order to not be hungry. > > 2-3 meals from one American restaurant meal? Seriously? I clean my plate, then have a snack a couple hours later. Can you give me an idea of where you’re going, because I will have to go check it out to see if I can get more food for my buck - I can’t afford to eat out often as it is. In Ireland and Britain at least, it’s not all that different maybe 3/4 or 2/3 of a typical American restaurant plate, as I mentioned above I think sides have a bigger impact. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/198 "2011-12-15T03:49:47Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Evidently you didn’t follow the links. There were nine in what you quoted, ranging from the NY Times to Yale, all saying the same: exercise just isn’t very effective for losing weight. It’s not my opinion, it’s what the research shows. Evidently you didn’t read them either past the brief oversimplification that exercise “doesn’t work”. From link 1: > [@](#): > > But few people, an overwhelming body of research shows, achieve significant weight loss with exercise alone, not without changing their eating habits. From link 2: > [@](#): > > Some other studies in this review compared the effect of diet and exercise with diet alone. Here, it was found that weight loss for those dieting and exercising was between 3.4 and 17.7 kg, but for those just dieting was 2.3 ” 16.7 kg. From link 3: > [@](#): > > There have been a lot of reports in the last year confirming that contrary to popular belief, **not all** exercise leads to **significant** weight loss. (my emphasis) From link 4: > [@](#): > > In people who have lost weight and kept weight off, physical activity is almost always involved. And those people who just do diet are more likely to fail, as are those who just do exercise. You need a combination of the two, because we’re talking about human beings, not machines. From link 5: > [@](#): > > “It’s not that exercise doesn’t help with weight loss,” says Melanson. “It’s that it’s harder to lose weight with exercise than diet.” From link 6: > [@](#): > > But even if calorie intake trumps exercise, this does not mean exercise does not play a key role in helping people stay trim. From link 7: > [@](#): > > For women, although exercise alone was not a successful weight loss strategy, at each level of dietary fat reduction those who increased exercise − moderately or substantially − lost more weight than those who changed activity less. From link 8 (“A 7-Step Plan for Weight Loss”). Note step 3: > [@](#): > > 1. Include regular exercise in your weight-loss plan. From link 9: > [@](#): > > It’s true that after six months of working out, most of the exercisers in Church’s study were able to trim their waistlines slightly — by about an inch. _Every single one_ of your links suggest that diet and exercise together achieves the greatest weight-loss, moreso than diet alone. You are reading what you want to read. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/199 "2011-12-15T06:46:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > And totally normal weight, healthy [people who went on a calorie restriction diet.](http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201103/dieting-can-make-you-lose-your-mind) > > Here’s what starvation dieting does to you - 36 healthy young men were put on 1600 calories per day for a goal of 2.5 lbs of weight loss per week. Not fat men, normal, healthy young men. I know this study has been brought up here before, and it’s been pointed out that it’s interesting but flawed in several ways. These were men who had been eating a normal, healthy diet and then had their calorie intake cut down by half. They lost 25% of their original weight and were seriously underweight by the end. They were literally, actually starving (and that was the point - to study starvation and refeeding). What those guys experienced has very little in common with the average American dieter. Losing weight when you have a fair bit to spare is nothing like being starved from a normal, healthy weight to a point where your health and life may be in danger. It’s also worth noting that the subjects ‘volunteered’ for this study in order to avoid being drafted during WWII, so their motivation was entirely different than the average dieter (when an overweight person sees the number on the scale go down, they’re usually happy, as opposed to these guys were just watching themselves get sicker and weaker day by day. I imagine that would change the psychological reaction considerably). I guess you can refer to a calorie restricted diet as ‘starvation’ if you’re using a really liberal definition of the word. But normal, moderate, calorie restriction is not ‘starvation’ in the way that most people would understand it. Ancel Keys was trying to figure out how to help extremely malnourished concentration camp victims, not the survivors of a Weight Watchers meeting. > [@](#): > > Calorie restriction dieting is intolerable It’s not necessarily. You don’t have to cut back so far that you consistently lose 2.5 pounds a week, as the Keys study participants did. I’m not saying it’s easy, or that everyone can or should do it, but it’s not accurate to describe it as ‘intolerable’. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914/200 "2011-12-15T06:53:06Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Evidently you didn’t read them either past the brief oversimplification that exercise “doesn’t work”. It doesn’t. I read them all and many others, completely, which is usually the best way to take in the information, not just search for a few things to pick out and extrapolate from. Here’s what all of them said: exercise doesn’t make much difference. Certainly not enough to warrant all the people in this thread talking about it like it’s an actual \*effective solution to being obese. \ ***It is not.** It does not work. It is not a solution. It will not improve diet results in a significant way and there’s a strong liklihood that it will _undermine_ your (otherwise effective) dietary efforts. > [@](#): > > **In general, for weight loss, exercise is pretty useless,"** says Eric Ravussin, chair in diabetes and metabolism at Louisiana State University and a prominent exercise researcher. **Many recent studies have found that exercise isn’t as important in helping people lose weight** as you hear so regularly in gym advertisements or on shows like _The Biggest Loser_ — or, for that matter, from magazines like this one. > > The basic problem is that while it’s true that exercise burns calories and that you must burn calories to lose weight, exercise has another effect: it can stimulate hunger. That causes us to eat more, which in turn can negate the weight-loss benefits we just accrued. \*\*Exercise, in other words, isn’t necessarily helping us lose weight. It may even be making it harder. \*\* > [@](#): > > For example, imagine sorting out your diet and in 6 months you find you’ve lost 10 kg in weight. If, on top of this, you had been exercising, say, for 45 mins, 4 times a week, you could expect to have lost about 11 kg. And the time you would have spent exercising to get this additional 1 kg weight loss benefit? – 69 hours (!) > **There are plenty of good reasons for taking regular exercise. Weight loss isn’t one of them.** > [@](#): > > Studies show exercise alone doesn’t produce much weight loss. > [@](#): > > There have been a lot of reports in the last year confirming that contrary to popular belief, not all exercise leads to significant weight loss. **If you want to shed pounds, it mostly comes down to diet.** > [@](#): > > Well, science has some bad news for you. **More and more research** in both the UK and the US is emerging to show that exercise has a **negligible impact on weight loss.** That tri-weekly commitment to aerobics class? **Almost worthless,** as far as fitting into your bikini is concerned. The Mayo Clinic, a not-for-profit medical research establishment in the US, reports that, in general, studies “have demonstrated no or modest weight loss with exercise alone” and that “an exercise regimen… is **unlikely to result in short-term weight loss beyond what is achieved with dietary change.** ” I am a big fan of exercise. I think if anything can be a panacea and an elixir of youth, it’s exercise. I think exercise can do really miraculous things. But the focus on it as a major tool for effective weight loss is, as I said when I brought it up, misplaced. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-america/605914.md?page=11)