# Fat is 'fabulous' :rolleyes: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903 "2004-08-08T18:42:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/81 "2004-08-10T14:26:41Z")
I have actually read Wann’s book, and I thought it was not too crazy. She starts by trying to increase fat women’s self-esteem, talking about sexy, sensual fat women, talking about how ridiculous our culture’s weight expectations are. Self- love is probably more successful than self-hate in helping people look good. She talks about the way a fat woman shouldn’t give up on being attractive, talks about choosing clothes that are flattering on you, choosing things that fit instead of buying too-small clothes out of denial, about the way that big, bright patterns actually look better if you’ve got a bigger body to hang them on. She encourages women to get their hair done, experiment with makeup, learn to feel attractive where they are now instead of saying ‘I’ll only be pretty if I’m thin.’ She approaches fat acceptance in some ways as a civil rights issue, saying that the discrimination and ostracism fat people face is stupid and wrongheaded, and that fat people should fight against it instead of internalizing the idea that they deserve to suffer for being fat. She says frankly that all diets are useless, stupid, and wrong. That dieting is doomed to failure and that the only people who are benefitted by diets are the dieting industry, who is getting rich off of disappointing fat women over and over again. She says that it’s wonderfully liberating to simply refuse to diet, ever again. She encourages celebrating 12:01AM, January 1, as National No Diet Minute. Regarding diets I’d say she’s right. Then she asks women who are fat to concentrate on being healthy fat women rather than trying to get skinny. She tells them to add fruits and vegetables to their diet as much as possible, without asking them to stop eating anything. She advises them to find physical activity that they like doing, and to do it regularly, without being intimidated by the skinny people around them. She says many people will never be thin, but everyone can and should try to be healthy, and that everyone, even fat people, deserves to enjoy the benefits of better health. I liked her book, and thought it was a much healthier approach than the rest of the media’s, which tends to tell fat women that they are ugly and lazy and deserve to suffer, and that they should lose weight in the harshest, most painful, and quickest ways possible. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/82 "2004-08-10T15:33:58Z")
> [@badmana](#): > > Most fat parents have fat kids who like to excuse it with “we have fat in our genes”. Oh please. Something sure seems to be genetic. An anecdote: All my life I’ve known a wonderful family. The mother was extremely obese and the father was slim. They had nine children, 6 girls and 3 boys. Five of the children are extremely obese. Four of the children are slim. Two of the boys are slim and two of the girls. In order of birth: obese obese slim obese slim obese slim/slim (twins) obese They grew up in the same house with the same parents. There are 15 years separating the oldest from the youngest. The youngest has been my friend since we were both about two. She’s been fat all that time. Something is causing half of the family to weigh over 400 pounds and the other half to be slim. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/83 "2004-08-10T15:41:44Z")
From some of the things you’ve mentioned there **FisherQueen** , it seems pretty crazy to me. I’m all for increasing people’s self esteem but not by making up bullshit. What is so ridiculous about our country’s weight expectations? This used to be a nation where obesity was pretty rare and now it is common. Is it ridiculous to think we can fight obesity? > [@](#): > > She approaches fat acceptance in some ways as a civil rights issue, saying that the discrimination and ostracism fat people face is stupid and wrongheaded, and that fat people should fight against it instead of internalizing the idea that they deserve to suffer for being fat. What kind of discrimination are fat people faced with? How are fat people supposed to fight ostracism? There will always be cliques where you won’t fit in for one reason or another. Is it more realistic to change everyone else or to either change yourself or find another clique? > [@](#): > > She says frankly that all diets are useless, stupid, and wrong. That is bullshit and a dangerous message to be sending out to a group that supposedly has a lack of self esteem and is looking for acceptance. That is telling them flat out to not try to lose weight because it can’t be done. > [@](#): > > Then she asks women who are fat to concentrate on being healthy fat women rather than trying to get skinny. The number one way to concentrate on being healthy if you’re fat **is** to lose weight. Being fat puts you at risk for diabetes, osteoporosis, heart disease and a whole host of serious health problems. Everyone can lose weight. There are some rare genetic disorders and rare thyroid problems that make it very difficult for a small minority of the population but it can still be done. I’m not saying its easy or that we all have to be super models but please don’t fall for this group’s bullshit that you can be fat and healthy. You can smoke two packs a day and you might be healthy too but the odds are against you. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/84 "2004-08-10T15:54:32Z")
There’s undoubtedly a genetic component to how well a person stores fat and metabolizes it. Google on “Pima paradox” for an interesting article. ---
**Author:** ![stately\_plump\_buck\_mulligan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@stately\_plump\_buck\_mulligan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stately_plump_buck_mulligan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/85 "2004-08-10T16:01:48Z")
A book that tries to encourage a “healthy lifestyle” in obese women by telling them to add fruits and vegetables to their diet _without changing anything else_ does border on crazy in my mind. If an obese person is taking in far too many calories than they in a day, throwing a couple of bananas and some baby carrots on top of the pile isn’t going to make too much of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/86 "2004-08-10T16:08:44Z")
> [@stately plump buck mulligan](#): > > A book that tries to encourage a “healthy lifestyle” in obese women by telling them to add fruits and vegetables to their diet _without changing anything else_ does border on crazy in my mind. If an obese person is taking in far too many calories than they in a day, throwing a couple of bananas and some baby carrots on top of the pile isn’t going to make too much of a difference. Hopefully, eating a few bananas and baby carrots will leave a little less room for the Twinkies and Ho-Hos. At least it’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/87 "2004-08-10T16:20:39Z")
> [@FisherQueen](#): > > She says frankly that all diets are useless, stupid, and wrong. Depends on what one means by “diet”. If it’s Nutrisystem, or The Zone, or Atkins, or SlimFast, or any of the sundry others of that ilk, she may ultimately be right, since apparently very few people can lose weight and keep it off using these unusual “fad” approaches. However, it we’re talking about simply switching to eating moderate portions of a well-balanced diet, versus the now relatively common mega-dosing of the calorie-rich, vitamin-poor foods that have become staples of the “American diet”, I’d say she’s all wet. > [@FisherQueen](#): > > She advises them to find physical activity that they like doing, and to do it regularly, without being intimidated by the skinny people around them. She says many people will never be thin, but everyone can and should try to be healthy, and that everyone, even fat people, deserves to enjoy the benefits of better health. Meh, I dunno. In another thread I mentioned a tribe of Native Americans, the Pima, who are found in both the USA and Mexico. American Pima have about 20x the rate of obesity and Type II diebetes as the general US population, while Mexican Pima are about as healthy as their non-Pima countrymen. Why? They eat less, less junk in particular, and they’re more active than their American counterparts. Period. The average member of this tribe is at high risk, because of their genetic makeup, to obesity. Yet the vast majority of Mexican Pima aren’t obese. So going around saying “you’ll probably never be thin” is fatuous, in my oppinion, and probably dangerous. Sure, if you make no significant changes to your diet or lifestyle, no, you’ll probably never be thin. Unfortunately, some of us don’t have the luxury of enjoying the American dream fat-free whilst sitting on our asses and pounding junk food. We just can’t do it. It’s starting to look like the majority of us can’t, actually. For a few losers of the genetic crapshoot, the average American lifestyle and diet is literally pathological. Look, for some folks with Type I diabetes, through no fault of their own, through no weakness in character or drive, a diet most human beings could enjoy is life-threatening. Do we tell them to stop taking their insulin and just try to focus on being happy the way they are? NO! Is it fair they have to stick themselves with needles every day, and carry around blood monitors, and avoid certain foods despite cravings, etc. Absolutely not. Does nature care? No. It’s fine to want people to feel good about themselves, but give me a break. Telling people to shed pounds isn’t just about “get off yo’ fat ass, ya got too much booty, biotch”, despite what some of these fat-advocates want to think. It’s because obesity is _unhealthy_, and its epidemic spread is leading to a _public health crisis_. So you’re fat, and that’s at least partially because you had shitty luck in the gene department. You can’t eat whatever you want and sit on your duff. Get the fuck over it. Being fat is a fixable problem, and you owe it to yourself at the very least to do something about it. There may be societal costs to being obese too, which is another thing to think about. There may be insurance repurcussions in the near future. That won’t be pretty. So don’t give up on being fit, no matter what some well-meaning quitter says. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/88 "2004-08-10T16:47:50Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > I never wrote that losing weight was easy or that every system for losing weight will work. What I said was that the cause of gaining weight is when one takes in more calories than one burns off. Nothing you just wrote invalidates my statement or shows that its stupid. I should probably explain my use of the word “stupid.” Your mantra is not stupid, but very simple-minded. “Eat less, exercise more” doesn’t always quite work that way. We’ve discussed this at length in another thread. What would be stupid is to reopen that thread. But for those of you that insist, it’s [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5098659#post5098659). The link goes to the last page. What I said about aerobic exercise was from a post by **CanvasShoes**. It’s post #314 in that thread. I admit I haven’t read it thoroughly yet, though I mean to someday, really I do. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/89 "2004-08-10T16:57:19Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Bullshit. Do you really think convincing fat people that they are “okay just the way they are” is going to get even a single one of them to do anything about thier obesity? I had the perfect comeback to this last night. Naturally I had it just as soon as I was nowhere near a computer. 🆒 Look at it this way: You have a car. It has a big ol’ rust hole in the driver’s side door. You suddenly come to realize that you love this car, just the way it is. I don’t know why, maybe something reminded you of high school, the back seat, and Becky Sue’s panties. Now loving that car just as it is, what are the chances that you start to take better care of it? Maybe you will even get that rust hole fixed. How about if you continued to hate the car? Would you be in any rush to take it off the cinder blocks in your back yard and drive it? Or would it suffer yet more neglect? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/90 "2004-08-10T16:57:21Z")
No one insisted that you link to another thread. The cause of gaining weight is taking in more calories than you burn. Instead of linking to another thread, just tell me how I am wrong. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/91 "2004-08-10T17:01:58Z")
Its really not the perfect come back **tdn**. **Lord Ashtar** is not saying that we should have fat people hate themselves. He’s saying that we shouldn’t tell people its okay to stay in an unhealthy state. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/92 "2004-08-10T17:30:59Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > No one insisted that you link to another thread. The cause of gaining weight is taking in more calories than you burn. Instead of linking to another thread, just tell me how I am wrong. You’re not wrong, you’re just over-simplifying. Metabolism is not merely a bank account, it’s a complex merchanism. For instance, say I eat nothing but raw carrots and celery for the next two weeks. As well, I jog a couple miles a day, which I haven’t been doing previously. This results in a “withdrawl” of 2000 calories per day. After 14 days, that’s a net withdrawl of 28000 calories. If 3500 equals a pound of fat, then I’ve lost 8 pounds. At the end of two weeks, I go back to my old habits. I should stabilize at -8, correct? After all, I’ve made withdrawls for 2 weeks, and no deposits larger than normal, right? Wrong. I will gain back the pounds, and then some, in no time at all. My body was in starvation mode, and is rushing to pack away some extra energy. Come to think of it, I wish my body worked like my bank, and my bank worked like my body. 😛 Now, if you had said “Change your lifestyle so that you take in fewer calories daily, and increase your activity, and make these permanent changes that you can live with”, I’d be more on board with that. Even still, that’s a gross oversimplification. As seen on the other thread, people tend to resent the “eat less execise more” mantra because it implies “and even an idiot can figure that out, so how stupid must you be?” You might be surprised to find out that most fat people have tried that once. In fact, most have tried it a number of times that would stagger your imagination. Please don’t insult them by implying that they’ve never tried the painfully obvious. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/93 "2004-08-10T17:40:52Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > Its really not the perfect come back **tdn**. **Lord Ashtar** is not saying that we should have fat people hate themselves. He’s saying that we shouldn’t tell people its okay to stay in an unhealthy state. If he’s saying that, then he’s largely missing the point. “Love your body the way it is” is not the same as “Stay unhealthy at all costs.” My point was that by accepting yourself as you are, you can then better envision yourself as you could be, and better motivate yourself to make that happen. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/94 "2004-08-10T18:09:42Z")
In rereading what I wrote earlier, I overgeneralized. Allow me to rephrase. My concern with this “love yourself just the way you are” is that there will be some people who will read this as “If I’m fine just the way I am, then I don’t have to do a damn thing.” The fact of the matter is, you aren’t. You’re fat. And fat is unhealthy. If self-esteem is the problem (and I’d wager it is for most fat/obese people), then I’d rather they take a different approach. I’d prefer it go more like, “You aren’t unloveable, you aren’t ugly, you aren’t doomed to be unhappy for the rest of your life. You’re fat. And being fat is _ **correctable** _.” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/95 "2004-08-10T18:15:10Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > In rereading what I wrote earlier, I overgeneralized. Allow me to rephrase. > > My concern with this “love yourself just the way you are” is that there will be some people who will read this as “If I’m fine just the way I am, then I don’t have to do a damn thing.” The fact of the matter is, you aren’t. You’re fat. And fat is unhealthy. > > If self-esteem is the problem (and I’d wager it is for most fat/obese people), then I’d rather they take a different approach. I’d prefer it go more like, “You aren’t unloveable, you aren’t ugly, you aren’t doomed to be unhappy for the rest of your life. You’re fat. And being fat is _ **correctable** _.” I couldn’t agree more. So which attitude is this group espousing? Seems to me like it’s the latter. “Don’t work at being thin, work at being healthy – and happy” is chock full o’ wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/96 "2004-08-10T18:34:20Z")
I think they’re (unknowingly) espousing the former. Perhaps it’s just my interpretation, but that’s what I see. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/97 "2004-08-10T18:55:58Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > the misconception that the sufferer’s problems are solely related to food. In nearly all cases, the underlying cause is psychological, not physical. YES! You are exactly right! I think the more people recognize this, the closer we will get to helping ourselves. I am a giant yo-yo in regards to my weight. I get really fat when I am unhappy because I want to reach to food for comfort. I recently got out of an incredibly bad situation, got into counseling, and lost 30 pounds. In seven weeks. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/98 "2004-08-10T19:43:25Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I think they’re (unknowingly) espousing the former. Perhaps it’s just my interpretation, but that’s what I see. This is still [NAAFA](http://www.naafa.org) we’re talking about, right? They remind me a bit of PETA–poke around on their homepage and you’ll see why. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/99 "2004-08-10T20:04:44Z")
I’m fat. I’m not obese, but I’m fat (and muscular as well). And other than the years I got down to 120 lbs by literally starving myself (and it’s not fun fighting an eating disorder; some bits of it stick with you and tempt you years after), I’ve been fat for a looong time. But I’m not as fat as I was. Why? Because I’ve been exercising and (trying to, with moderate success) eating healthier. And why is _that_? Because I stopped hating how I look. So I agree with several of the posters here who said that if you can accept yourself for who you are, with all your flaws, it’s easier for you to truly care about and feel like you can make changes for the better. If you’re studying in a field you hate, you aren’t going to want to do more than the bare minimum of work; if you’re studying in a field you love and are fascinated with, though, you’re more likely to put effort into your research or papers to truly put forth quality work. Same thing as here. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_On\_My\_Sleeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/77aa72/32.png) [@Heart\_On\_My\_Sleeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_On_My_Sleeve)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903/100 "2004-08-11T02:57:31Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Whah? Obesity, in and of itself, IS a disease. > > [Read a little.](http://www.obesity.org/) Oh, please…it didn’t take me a minute to find this on that site: AOA Sponsors include: Abbott Laboratories, Aventis SA, Ethicon Endo-Surgery, Inc. (a Johnson & Johnson company), GlaxoSmithKline, Health Management Resources, Hoffman LaRoche, Inc., Jenny Craig International, Novartis Nutrition Corporation, Ortho-McNeil Pharmaceutical, Inc. (a Johnson & Johnson company), Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Slim-Fast Foods Company, and Weight Watchers International, Inc. Several groups have contributed their name to support one or many issues undertaken by the AOA. Such support has offered the AOA the opportunity to build important partnerships and form strong coalitions to accomplish our many missions. Groups that have partnered with the AOA include: - American Association of Health Plans (AAHP) - American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) - American College of Nutrition - American Dietetic Association - American Society of Bariatric Physicians - American Society for Bariatric Surgery - American Society for Clinical Nutrition - Amgen Inc. - Council on Size and Weight Discrimination - Health Management Resources - International Federation for the Surgery of Obesity - Jenny Craig, Inc. - Knoll Pharmaceutical Company - Law Offices of Susan Wasserman - Lexington-Fayette County (KY) Health Department - Medeva Pharmaceuticals - National Organization of Social Security Claimants’ Representatives - Novartis Nutrition Corporation - Obesity Law and Advocacy Center - State of Maryland - Department of Health and Mental Hygiene - Shape Up America, Tanita Corporation - Weight Watchers International, Inc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-fabulous-rolleyes/258903.md?page=6)