# Fat is ugly? Well, yes. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397 "2001-11-04T03:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/221 "2001-11-06T22:55:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nacho4Sara \* > \*\ ***Alice** , please don’t watse any more time arguing with someone who quibbles over the definition of stupid vs. dumb and unattractive vs. ugly. Someone so capable of twisting his words to change his argument is a waste of breath. \*\* Horray! For the record Sara, I think yer a hottie too. If I was a man (or a lesbian) I’d hit on you for sure. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/222 "2001-11-06T23:03:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nacho4Sara \* > **Alice** , please don’t watse any more time arguing with someone who quibbles over the definition of … unattractive vs. ugly. Someone so capable of twisting his words to change his argument is a waste of breath. **Sara** , I find it interesting that you didn’t have a problem with it when yosemitebabe posted this on page two of this thread: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > And do you (any of you, not just threemae) understand the distinction between “I’m not attracted to this” and “THIS IS **UGLY** ”? Because I see a huge difference there. I’m really doing this just to stirg the shit-pot, honestly – I’m just curious as to why you take issue with it when **OneChance** did it but not earlier when it was done closer to your side of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/223 "2001-11-06T23:06:04Z")
A typo and a word left out all in one, hooray! > [@](#): > > I’m really doing this just to stirg the shit-pot, honestly … Should read I’m really **NOT** doing this just to stir the shit-pot, honestly… ---
**Author:** ![\_Uigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/e9a140/32.png) [@\_Uigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_Uigi)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/224 "2001-11-06T23:17:35Z")
Fat is ugly. Period. Hasn’t a damned thing to do with the person/personality. However, I sure would hate the extra expense of having to tote chalk around if I were a datin’ man these days. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/225 "2001-11-06T23:19:22Z")
Well, there _is_ a difference between saying someone is “unattractive” and saying that someone is “ugly” (IMSHO). In some ways the t-shirt got it exactly right: “beauty is only skin deep. ugly goes right down to the bone.” Someone can be physically appealing (attractive) and still be very ugly. I’m sure almost all of us know such people. As far as why people get upset over the whole “fat is ugly” thing, I can only approach this from my own POV, okay? But to me, someone who is ugly is someone you just don’t want to be around, ever. It doesn’t have anything to do with attractiveness or sexiness or anything like that; saying that fat=ugly means that all fat people are horrible to be around, all the time. Combine that with the fact that I, at least, have heard nothing from my mother but how I should lose weight since I was _ten_ and _already starting puberty_ (I had breasts and mom interpreted that as fat because she couldn’t deal with it), yes, hearing (or reading) someone make the generalization that all fat people are ugly is very disturbing to me. However, I don’t generally get involved in these kinds of threads because it’s not worth my effort. I wanted to comment on Shallow Hal, though. It looks incredibly offensive not only because of the content of fat jokes it will undoubtedly contain, but also because it promotes two separate stereotypes: 1. All fat women are beautiful on the inside. 2. All thin women are ugly on the inside. Frankly, I think _everybody_ should be offended by these messages. But that’s just me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/226 "2001-11-06T23:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m really doing this just to stirg the shit-pot, honestly – I’m just curious as to why you take issue with it when OneChance did it but not earlier when it was done closer to your side of the argument. I find the statement, “I think you’re attractive” to be on par with saying, “I think you’re pretty” or “I think you’re beautiful.” It’s just variations of them same adjective. Likewise, ugly and unattractive essentially mean the same thing, but one is less severe than the other. However, saying “I am attracted to you” is different. You can find something pleasing to the eye without wanting to have sex with it. Being attracted to something suggests chemistry of some sort. Likewise, yosemite was saying that there is a difference between MGibson saying “This is ugly” and “I am not attracted to this.” Or even “This is ugly because I am not attracted to this.” I am capable of being attracted to someone without finding them physically attractive. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/227 "2001-11-06T23:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ‘Uigi \* > \*\*I sure would hate the extra expense of having to tote chalk around if I were a datin’ man these days. \*\* Huh? ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/228 "2001-11-06T23:26:17Z")
I have a feeling it’s a variation on the “roll her in flour” joke. ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/229 "2001-11-06T23:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Fat is ugly. Period. > Hasn’t a damned thing to do with the person/personality. However, I sure would hate the extra expense of having to tote chalk around if I were a datin’ man these days. As a single woman, I just released a tremendous sigh of relief that you are out of the dating pool. Some of you seem to think that physical appearance and personality are two distinctly seperate things. I disagree. I believe that the two greatly influence each other, and no amount of physical attractiveness will compensate for a serious lack in personality. In sixty years, I hope that I can look at my spouse, whose ass is sagging, whose face is wrinkly and whose skin is paper-thin, whose teeth and hair are gone, and find him as beautiful and sexy as the day I married him. No amount of physical attractiveness (the kind that society values today) will last for sixty years. But a beautiful personality and an amazing soul will last much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/230 "2001-11-07T00:31:22Z")
Well, 'Uigi. You could always just _ask_ her where her vagina is. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/231 "2001-11-07T00:34:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Green Bean \* > \*\*Well, 'Uigi. You could always just _ask_ her where her vagina is. \*\* Yeah, like he’ll ever get the opportunity to get close to a vagina. One that he isn’t paying for, anyway. 'Uigi, I dare you to call my wife (size 18-20) ugly in front of me, in person. I double-dare you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mermaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@The\_Mermaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mermaid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/232 "2001-11-07T02:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MaxTheVool \* > \*\* > (2) To say something that might make me a tad unpopular, I also have a minor pet peeve that is triggered by posts such as this one from Little Mermaid: > > > [@](#): > > > > Porc I always thought you were beautiful because I’ve read your words and thoughts. > > I agree absolutely that physical appearance is vastly less important than what’s on the inside. But the word “beautiful”, in general, refers to physical appearance. If there’s someone who you want to praise due to their intelligence, wit, caring nature, sense of humor, fine taste in cigars, etc., why not praise them for those reasons? Or say something obviously metaphorical like “xxx has a beautiful spirit”. Or even state “I would pork xxx in a Russian minute if I had him/her alone” if that’s true. > > But using the word “beautiful” to refer specifically to interior traits seems imprecise, insulting, and condescending. If _know_ that I’m a good person inside. If someone ever tells me how handsome I am (which I kinda doubt they would, since I’m pretty insecure about my appearance), I want to believe that they mean it, not that they mean that I am “handsome in their eyes” or something of that sort. (Which is not to say that one’s level of perceived physical attractiveness is not influenced by one’s personality… but there’s a difference between being incredibly attracted to someone who’s average looking but great in every other way and telling them that they’re hotter than liquid fuck, and telling someone on a message board that they’re “beautiful” just because they are eloquent and intelligent.)\*\* OK first of all it’s THE Mermaid, there’e nothing little about me. And second, I can say I think porcupine is beautiful if I want to because 1. She asked the question and 2. I’ve seen pics of her. I wasn’t imprecise, insulting or condescending and I meant every friggin word. I can’t help it if _you_ don’t know how to take a compliment, just don’t assume that everyone else is uncomfortable as well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mermaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@The\_Mermaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mermaid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/233 "2001-11-07T02:14:38Z")
BTW if you are going to quote me, do it verbatim. I said > [@](#): > > Porc I always thought you were beautiful because I’ve read your words and thoughts. Your physical beauty is just icing on an already sweet cake. > > No I don’t need a date, just speaking the truth as I see it. Cut up in little snippits, it does seem I’m just saying “you’re only pretty on the inside”; taken in whole it sounds completely different and just as I intended. ---
**Author:** ![grenadier1974](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@grenadier1974](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grenadier1974)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/234 "2001-11-07T04:14:02Z")
Wow, there seems to be a lot of pissed of fat chicks posting here. 🙂 Get off you asses and do some laps. I don’t see how the OP was all that wrong. Most people choose to be fat (I know I did in the past). There are a few exceptions that have medical problems, but most are just lazy/gluttons. The OP did say he had no problems with a little extra weight, just cows. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/235 "2001-11-07T05:34:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grenadier1974 \* > \*\*Wow, there seems to be a lot of pissed of fat chicks posting here. 🙂 > > Get off you asses and do some laps… cows. \*\* Wow, that’s really nice. Clearly, you have alot of time on your hands to come up with such sweet talkin’ 'cus I can’t imagine that you’d be able to find a woman to date you, fat cow or not. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/236 "2001-11-07T05:49:14Z")
Blah blah blah? Blah blah. Blah _blah_ blah blah blah. **Alice** blahblah blah blahblahblah. > [@](#): > > _blahblah **yosemitebabe** _ > blahblahblah blah blahblah blahblah blah blahblah blah blahblahblahblah. **Blah blahblahblah, blahblahblahblahblah blah blahblah.** I can’t believe this one is still running. “I don’t find fat people physically attractive.” “I pissed off a telemarketer today.” “Fucking Microsoft!” blahblahblahblahblahblah. **Yes, you are special. Your opinions about opinions are meaningful, even if you feel the opinion is worthless; in fact, an opinion about an opinion in which the opinion _is_ about how worthless the other opinion is, is _especially_ meaningful.** [sub]blahblahblahblah blah blahblah… if you yell louder, you will be more correct, if you yell louder, you will be more correct… blahblahblahblah blah blahblah…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/237 "2001-11-07T05:53:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OneChance \* > I’ve heard of women being attracted to Paul Sorvino’s looks. But I’ve never heard any man say he liked Camryn Manheim’s looks. We’re not talking about personality here. Only looks. \*\* Woof, is _this_ statement off-base. Not only do I find Camryn Manheim attractive, she is tops on the list of _Practice_ actresses I’d do. From the bottom up: Lara Flynn Boyle: revolting skinny (to me, and me alone) - I’d be afraid of accidentally cracking her. She does not attract me in the least. Marla Sokoloff: I know she’s 21, but I think I’m too old for 21 year olds; she seems about sixteen and that’s a big turnoff. Kelli Williams: frankly, sort of blah. She’s not UNattractive, but there’s no spark. I can’t stand her character, and that may be of some influence here. Lisa Gay Hamilton: she’s cute, and were I still a single guy, I’d certainly invite her over to discuss the Rule Against Perpetuities over coffee. But again, she’s not a stand-out. Camryn Manheim: yum. Strong, confident, sharp, gorgeous. How you gonna lose? The next-door neighbors would complain about the noise. All this is theoretical, of course, since Mrs. Bricker is my one and only. \*Yeah - that’s it. I’m married, and that’s the ONLY reason I’m not shakin’ the bedpost with Ms. Manheim. 🙂 \* Still… the message is clear, **OneChance** - you are so off base, it’s amazing. PLENTY of people, me included, find Camryn Manheim quite sensual and attractive. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/238 "2001-11-07T07:57:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jodi_ > **But isn’t CHANCE supposed to be talking in a fake Texas accent?** I am. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/239 "2001-11-07T08:11:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bricker_ > **Not only do I find Camryn Manheim attractive, she is tops on the list of _Practice_ actresses I’d do.** I don’t know if this is a product of The Pit or something in the water, but some of you like to give new meaning to things, or read what you want to read rather than what is actually written. I never said Camryn was unattractive to everyone. I said that I’ve never witnessed another man saying, “That Camryn Manheim, she’s attractive,” until now of course. I can’t imagine y’all think that I know everyone. Of course I don’t know everyone. That would be silly. If I were to say, “I don’t find Gwyneth Paltrow all that attractive,” I know people would reply with, “I find her attractive and I’d do her.” Well, good for you. But maybe I wouldn’t. What’s wrong with that? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/240 "2001-11-07T08:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Mermaid \* > > OK first of all it’s THE Mermaid, there’e nothing little about me. Ack! My mistake. I apologize sincerely… it was an honest slipup. > [@](#): > > BTW if you are going to quote me, do it verbatim. > > I said > > > [@](#): > > > > Porc I always thought you were beautiful because I’ve read your words and thoughts. Your physical beauty is just icing on an already sweet cake. > > Cut up in little snippits, it does seem I’m just saying “you’re only pretty on the inside”; taken in whole it sounds completely different and just as I intended. Hmmm. Well, like I said, it’s just a pet peeve of mine, and I didn’t intend to offend. And I didn’t intend to change the meaning of what you said by taking it out of context… from your phrasing (“I always thought you were beautiful”), it implied to me that you had made the judgement (Porc is beautiful) before having any idea what Porc looks like in person. Which, needless to say, it is certainly your right to make, and to express however you like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397.md?page=13)