# Fat is ugly? Well, yes. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397 "2001-11-04T03:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/241 "2001-11-07T08:29:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nacho4Sara_ > **Well, since you already told me that the only reason I get hit on is because men are intimidated by better looking women, I can safely say that you finding me unattractive is the best news I’ve heard all day.** But some men _are_ intimidated by other women. You want a cite? Don’t forget that you’re in The Pit. Nacho, you were wondering why your friend, who _you_ implied was more attractive than you, gets less phone numbers than you do. I gave a possible reason, and a pretty realistic one at that. I used the word “probably.” How you twisted that into “definitely” is beyond me. For the record, I do find you unattractive. There, I said it, and I don’t see what’s so wrong with that. I have to find everyone attractive? You’re living in a dream world if that’s what you think. And I’m sure you’d find me unattractive as well. Big whoop. Life goes on. If you’re happy with yourself it doesn’t matter if someone finds you attractive or unattractive. At your age, you should know this. ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/242 "2001-11-07T08:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nacho4Sara_ > **Likewise, ugly and unattractive essentially mean the same thing, but one is less severe than the other.** Uh, so they _don’t_ mean the same thing. So they both mean the same thing, but not? That makes sense. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nacho4Sara_ > **I am capable of being attracted to someone without finding them physically attractive.** Hooray for you. Do you want a medal for that? Look, this thread is about physical appearance. The topic is, “Fat is ugly.” The topic isn’t, “Fat people are ugly people both inside and out.” I don’t think anyone here has ever said that; I know I haven’t. Like I said before, you like to read what you want to read rather than what is actually written. I’ve seen interviews with Camryn Manheim and she seems to have a great personality. But I’m not attracted to her physical appearance. If you have a problem with that, too bad. ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/243 "2001-11-07T08:45:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nacho4Sara_ > **If you are going to make a point that men carry weight differently from women, so be it. But you need evidence, or else it is no more than conjecture.** But I did provide evidence. I know this is The Pit and I didn’t really have to, but I did provide a link. Didn’t you see it? Of course you didn’t. But here it is again just so you have it: [Understanding Adult Obesity](http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health/nutrit/pubs/unders.htm) Look at the section entitled, “Body Fat Distribution: Pears vs. Apples.” ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/244 "2001-11-07T08:54:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland_ > **How 'bout you sweetie - where’s YOUR picture?** We can exchange pictures if you like. I don’t have a scanner, but a friend of mine has a digital camera I’m sure I could borrow. We could even put our pictures up side-by-side somewhere and let people take a vote. Is that why you want my picture? Oh, wait, I just remembered. I do have a picture online. But it’s not very flattering and very embarrassing. I don’t think I should post it. Maybe I won’t. Should I? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/245 "2001-11-07T09:08:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OneChance \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by Nacho4Sara_ > > Likewise, ugly and unattractive essentially mean the same thing, but one is less severe than the other. > > Uh, so they _don’t_ mean the same thing. So they both mean the same thing, but not? That makes sense. I thought Sara already explained this to you quite adequately, but since the statement was originally (I believe) made by me, I’ll explain it _once again._ As an artist, I found that there was a lot of beauty in the many models I drew in Life Drawing classes. Not just the young thin ones, but the old wrinkly ones, the tubby ones, etc. As I was drawing them, I saw the turn of their ankle to be beautiful, their gesture, the elegance or grace of their overall pose. And so they were beautiful. On the outside. But I wasn’t _attracted_ to them, as in wanting to date them. They were not “attractive” in that way, but their naked (yes, naked!) bodies were quite “beautiful”. I made some **beautiful** drawings of old, wrinkly ladies, chubby men, and what have you. I can’t speak for everyone, but I doubt that anyone here seriously wants to begrudge anyone their right to not be “attracted” to certain people. We all have our tastes. And as far as the “education” you some of want to give us about fat, and how you are “concerned” about us, _give me a break_. For one thing, most of us strongly suspect that this “concern” is really just thinly vieled contempt, and condescension (at least among many people). But, whatever. Let me assure you, my family is fully equipped to nag me about my weight, the length of my hair, the clothes I wear, and whatever else. These are _personal issues_ and _none of your business_. And believe it or not, as repeated before, most of us who are overweight actually _are_ aware of it, so _we don’t need you_ reminding us, or “saving” us. What part of this is so difficult to understand? ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/246 "2001-11-07T10:02:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by yosemitebabe_ > **And so they were beautiful. On the outside. But I wasn’t _attracted_ to them, as in wanting to date them.** Why didn’t you find them attractive enough to date? Was something about them unappealing to you? You say you were not attracted to those people. So therefore, you found them to be unattractive (in your own eyes, of course). So it’s okay for _you_ to find someone unattractive, but when _I_ find someone unattractive it’s not okay and I might as well have called them ugly. Is that right? Yeah, that clears up a lot. Nice little double standard you got going on there. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/247 "2001-11-07T10:05:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Originally posted by pennylane_ > > **women who are chastised for gaining weight by men who are themselves overweight** > > \*\* **alice** , what I said was that I know many women for whom this is true. I didn’t mean to imply that only men are guilty of this. I should have stated more clearly that both men and women hold these attitudes. And I do think that such attitudes contribute towards eating disorders in young girls. I think **Stoid** put it well when she said, “it is totally false to claim that anything like almost all men find fat women unattractive, but the pervasive belief that this is so… contributes to a negative, judgmental, and really unnecessary atmosphere of shame for all concerned.” As can be seen in this thread, many men are attracted to fat girls. MOST of the guys who have responded to this thread have said that they are not attracted to extremely skinny girls. But still there is a pervasive belief, among some people, that a girl can never be too thin. I’m a size 2, but I’ve gotten lots of negative comments about what I eat (from both men and women). It’s quite common here in France to tolerate excess weight in men - particularly older men - while women are expected to control their weight. When I asked for french fries at my cafeteria a few weeks ago, the enormous French chef behind the counter said, “Don’t you care about your figure?” I tried to laugh the question off but he refused to serve me until I answered! He wasn’t really being a jerk, he just found it rather unusual that a girl should eat something so greasy without a care in the world. I don’t like the mentality that girls should be expected to constantly worry about getting fat. I think that this kind of worry can conversely lead people (male or female) to develop unhealthy attitudes towards weight. It is for the same reason that I think criticism of overweight people, even by family members or friends, can only be counter-productive. That’s all I was trying to say. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/248 "2001-11-07T10:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OneChance \* > Why didn’t you find them attractive enough to date? Was something about them unappealing to you? You say you were not attracted to those people. So therefore, you found them to be unattractive (in your own eyes, of course). So it’s okay for _you_ to find someone unattractive, but when _I_ find someone unattractive it’s not okay and I might as well have called them ugly. Is that right? Yeah, that clears up a lot. Nice little double standard you got going on there. Give me a freakin’ break. Are you really this dim? I don’t believe it. You’re just trying to yank my chain. Do you really think it is a “double standard” for me to not be attracted to little old ladies? I am not gay, so I am not sexually attracted to women. I am not attracted to people who are vastly older (or younger) than me either. I am not sexually attracted to 10 year olds. You want to accuse me of being gulty of a “double standard” because of that? But just because I am not “attracted” to little old ladies, it doesn’t mean I think they are UGLY. I am not attracted to cocker spaniels, either. But that doesn’t automatically make them ugly. Get it? And please - do I _have_ to keep on repeating it? _ **YOU ARE ENTITLED TO NOT WANT TO DATE ANYONE YOU DON’T WANT TO DATE.** _ Do you want me to copy and past the myriad of times I’ve made this statement, on this **very thread?!?** Because I’m willing to do that. Just so you will SHUT UP about that particular point. I don’t want to advise you on who you should or should not be sexually attracted to, because that’s _your_ private business. Just like _my_ weight is _my_ private business. I don’t need, nor ask, for your input or opinion. I don’t need your help, your counsel, your advice, you “concern”, your anything. I have a family who can provide me with all of that. ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/249 "2001-11-07T11:12:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by yosemitebabe_ > **Give me a freakin’ break. Are you really this dim? I don’t believe it. You’re just trying to yank my chain.** Nope, no chain yanking. But I do owe you an apology. I misread your post and failed to notice that we actually agree on something. I did to you exactly what I accused others of doing to me. Thankfully, I don’t often make that mistake. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/250 "2001-11-07T11:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OneChance \* > But I do owe you an apology. I misread your post and failed to notice that we actually agree on something. I did to you exactly what I accused others of doing to me. Thankfully, I don’t often make that mistake. Well, thank you. Thank you thank you thank you. Sigh. I need to lay down and put a damp cloth over my forehead now. ---
**Author:** ![pennylane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pennylane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pennylane)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/251 "2001-11-07T11:51:51Z")
**Lie** down! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/252 "2001-11-07T11:57:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pennylane \* > \*\ ***Lie** down! 🙂 \*\* Well, see? Further proof that I am overextended! Off to my bedchamber I go… ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2001, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/253 "2001-11-07T11:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by yosemitebabe_ > **Sigh. I need to lay down and put a damp cloth over my forehead now.** If you want, if we ever meet, I’ll make it up to you with a back massage. I’ve been told I have strong hands. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![grenadier1974](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a4c791/32.png) [@grenadier1974](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grenadier1974)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/254 "2001-11-08T02:09:28Z")
I assume alice\_in\_wonderland is a cow? Put down the twinkies girl. ---
**Author:** ![Tricia\_Valentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Tricia\_Valentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tricia_Valentine)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/255 "2001-11-08T02:56:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nacho4Sara \* > \*\*Tricia, if you think the repsonse you are recieving is anywhere close to “the brunt” of it, I invite you to post for a few more months. \*\* If you notice, I’ve been here awhile. I generally like to keep my mouth shut. I’m not as stupid as you make me out to be, whether you care to believe so or not. ~C~ ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/256 "2001-11-08T03:32:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t forget that you’re in The Pit. Nacho, you were wondering why your friend, who you implied was more attractive than you, gets less phone numbers than you do. I gave a possible reason, and a pretty realistic one at that. I used the word “probably.” How you twisted that into “definitely” is beyond me. For the record, I do find you unattractive. There, I said it, and I don’t see what’s so wrong with that. I have to find everyone attractive? You’re living in a dream world if that’s what you think. And I’m sure you’d find me unattractive as well. Big whoop. Life goes on. If you’re happy with yourself it doesn’t matter if someone finds you attractive or unattractive. At your age, you should know this. I really don’t understand you. At all. I said in my first post to this thread that I love my body and my looks and I don’t care what anyone thinks. Then I tell you that I don’t care if YOU think I’m unattractive; I believe I said that it would be “the best news I’ve heard all day.” I also make the statement about 4 times that you can be attracted to whomever you want, based on whatever you want, as long as you don’t say your opinion is true of everyone (which you did). Then you tell me I’M in a dream world? You have to type out that you find me unattractive, then tell me it doesn’t matter (which clearly I’ve already figured out, based on my previous posts) and condescendingly address me as if I’m 12 years old? What is wrong with you? Are you just reading my post for quibbles, or are you living in an alternate reality? My god in heaven. I feel like I just had a conversation with a syphilitic monkey. > [@](#): > > Uh, so they don’t mean the same thing. So they both mean the same thing, but not? That makes sense. Actually, it does. Two things can mean the basically the same thing, but just be variations on the same meaning. Like: Plain Unnattractive Ugly Grotesque Hideous OR Content Pleased Happy Joyous Ecstatic > [@](#): > > **ug·ly** (gl) > adj. ug·li·er, ug·li·est > Displeasing to the eye; **unsightly**. > [@](#): > > **un·sight·ly** (n-stl) > adj. un·sight·li·er, un·sight·li·est > Unpleasant or offensive to look at; **unattractive** > [@](#): > > **unattractive** adj 1: lacking beauty Sure. I’m just arbitrarily pulling these definitions out of my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/257 "2001-11-08T03:37:04Z")
Mwa ha ha ha ha ha ha…soon this thread shall be dead. Marc ---
**Author:** ![OneChance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/74df32/32.png) [@OneChance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneChance)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/258 "2001-11-08T04:11:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Nacho4Sara_ > **Are you just reading my post for quibbles, or are you living in an alternate reality?** Let me summarize just so you understand: First you said that when you go out with an “absolutely beautiful” friend of yours, you always walk away with more numbers. I replied that it could “probably” be due to the fact that men are intimidated by your friend’s good looks and are afraid of her. You twisted that into “the only reason I get hit on is because men are intimidated by better looking women.” So thanks to your twisting of words and meanings, here we are. Also, I never said my opinions were the opinions of everyone. That’s what you may have read in your own mind, but that’s certainly not what I wrote. You pointed out that I did write something like that. Please direct me to it. Furthermore, if you’re going to provide definitions for words, please provide all possible meanings and not just the ones that benefit your argument. I may find a girl unattractive, but that doesn’t mean I find her ugly or unsightly. I may find you plain, but I don’t think you’re hideous or grotesque. Nacho, you don’t come across as someone who can admit her mistakes, but I hope you would be mature enough this one time to make an exception. ---
**Author:** ![HomeSlice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9d8465/32.png) [@HomeSlice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HomeSlice)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/259 "2001-11-08T04:31:15Z")
Okay, so some people find fat people ugly, and some people find fat people beautiful. Case closed. 😃 This post is to commemorate my entrance back into the dating pool. I just got dumped. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2001, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/260 "2001-11-08T04:49:11Z")
So now I am really confused. Finally, on page (what is this, six?) six someone chooses to start defining words. We find that, in some cases at least, “ugly” can mean “unattractive” and not “hideous” per se. How very, very enlightening. I think ketchup is gross. Do I get to have a bunch of tomato farmers on my ass now? I understand people’s anger at the topic; I do not understand the way people have chose to express it. In six pages there is still something I am missing, though I am not clear what it is, partially because we’ve only just defined “ugly” in an objective manner, and even that is being quibbled with. _sigh_ You pit-posters: so wacky! 🙂 ~~ **erl** , [sub][sup]who remains of the opinion that what he considers fat is part of that which he considers ugly, and who also remains a firm 35 pounds overweight, which he also considers to be fat, but should he see that on another person wouldn’t consider fat, so that just goes to show you how subjective such a topic can be, and that flying off the handle—though pit-'propriate—certainly didn’t seem to solve anything for anyone…[/sup][/sub] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397.md?page=14)