# Fat is ugly? Well, yes. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397 "2001-11-04T03:46:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/61 "2001-11-04T06:19:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > Now, you’ve been on the SDMB for a long time, so I’m confident that you understand we’re all here to fight ignorance. Do you understand that it’s ignorant to make sweeping claims like “fat is ugly”? Do you also understand that it’s ignorant to judge people based on looks? Do you further understand that not only are you being ignorant, you are actively defending ignorance, as well as being a jackass and a jerk. \*\* My eyes just rolled so hard I am looking down into my sinuses. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/62 "2001-11-04T06:22:31Z")
Don’t worry **mouthbreather** , I can’t read any of your posts without snorting in disgust, so I guess we’re even. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/63 "2001-11-04T06:24:40Z")
Wow, any of them? Not one? I can’t tell you how hurt I am. I may not even sleep tonight. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/64 "2001-11-04T06:30:40Z")
Pepper, > [@](#): > > If you are so small minded to discrimnate against someone because they have a few extra pounds then you are a shallow and vain person, and you are the type of person I abhore because you only appreciate people for the shallowest of traits…and if you fit in that category then fuck you Mark you are an intolerant bigot and I hope you rot in hell. This poster seems to criticize MGibson’s “shallowness” in degrees. If someone is not really overweight, then its bad to hold any being overweight against them. You refuse to acknowledge that MGibson was qualifying his thread. You refuse to understand any shades of grey. You refuse to see any possiblility that the OP has any points. Its as if you’re a six year old. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/65 "2001-11-04T06:31:28Z")
SPOOFE: 🙂 Bless your heart! Threemae, I made the distinction between _attraction_ and _beauty_ in my post. We all certainly are entitled to not find certain people attractive, (or “sexy”) or not attractive. And that’s fine. But using the word **ugly** goes beyond that. It’s a universal statement. “This is **UGLY** ” is a far cry from “I am not attracted to this certain physical trait”. Tonight I saw a movie with Ellen Burstyn, where she played an elderly woman. But I marveled all through that movie how _beautiful_ she was. Elderly _and_ beautiful! But that can’t be! And Camryn Manheim - she’s certainly quite plump - also _beautiful_. (But she’s fat! That can’t be!) Absurd. I guess I must be fortunate to see the beauty in such people, when apparently there are a lot of people who are unable (or unwilling) to do so. And so I say to those of you who don’t: You’re missing out. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/66 "2001-11-04T06:31:34Z")
Jeepers, people. :eek: I think we just set some kind of new land speed record. Marc started this sucker at 9:46 and it’s already up to 2 pages. Going to bed now. Night night. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/67 "2001-11-04T06:33:48Z")
This is riduiculous. So far in The Pit I’ve seen rants stating that people find animal cruelty, smoking, telemarketers, fundamentalist Christians, the rolleyes smiley and almost anything else you can think of to be ugly. Not one of them resulted in the dog-pile I’ve seen here. For God’s sake people, Marc stated quite clearly “I’m going to state an **opinion** that probably isn’t popular. Fat is ugly” Understand folks, it’s an opinion. He doesn’t need cites, he doesn’t need logic. No more than I need logic to find beligerent customers or Lady Marmalades Whores on Parade unattractive or pig-dog ugly for that matter. Obviously a lot of people are sensitive about this issue for a lot of reasons, but wake up and smell the coffee folks. In modern, western poular culture fat is ugly (replace that with unattractive if you like). 99% our images of beauty, both male and female have been non-fat people. It may be right, it may be wrong, I neither know nor care, but it’s true if entertainment personalities, models and virtually every other popular standard of beuaty is to be believed. I believe Marc was way off base with his assertion that historically fat people have been unattractive, but I’ll agree with him entirely on his statement that in popular culture fat is ugly. Fat is ugly in popular culture. Leprous skin is ugly in popular culture. Bigotry is ugly in popular culture and so on and so forth. This does not mean that fat is ugly to everyone. Of course so far in this thread I’ve seen several people state as fact that attitude, and marc’s attitude particualrly, is ugly. Obviously there are people out thre who are going to find Marc’s opinion attractive so I think every one of you who has said such a thing should post retractions right away. You’re spouting ignorance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/68 "2001-11-04T06:36:13Z")
Well, when you’re trolling, you just gotta use the right bait. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/69 "2001-11-04T06:37:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > \*\*Wow. Some fat people sure do get upset pretty easily. > > So what if Marc’s opinion is unpopular? It’s an OPINION. Yes, he said “Fat IS ugly”. But I honestly don’t think you can interpret to mean “I define the standard of beauty” over “I think that fat is ugly”, can you? sheesh.\*\* I think one problem I have with what you are saying here is that you seem to be excusing a bit too much with the “It’s an OPINION.” portion of your post. I think we can all think of other “opinions” that people have that, if posted, would even have you yourself joining in to flame them - even though it is, in fact, just their opinion. I agree with an earlier comment. This thread seems…unusual. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/70 "2001-11-04T06:39:31Z")
Yosemite: > [@](#): > > You’re missing out. Me: > [@](#): > > I can understand a universal appreciation for the beauty of the human form from an aesthetic stand point God damn. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/71 "2001-11-04T06:40:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaspode \* > \*\*:rolleyes: \*\* What the hell do you mean by this?!? ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/72 "2001-11-04T06:41:41Z")
Did you ever even read my response? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/73 "2001-11-04T06:46:51Z")
No, the OP does _not_ have any redeeming points. None at all. Not a single one. Oh sure, after a few people disagreed with him, he brought the whole health thing. A few posters later pointed out it’s just his “opinion”. If I hold the “opinion” that Una (I’m using dear, sweet Una as an example, because she is my best friend and will understand) is an immoral fag who should be shot…I’m sure she wouldn’t be upset, because after all, it’s just an opinion, right? Or what if I started a thread that said, “Now,I know this isn’t popular. It’s just my opinion, but black people are stupid. I mean, let’ face it, they are. Historically, I can’t think of a single smart black person, there may have been a few, but not many.” Well, if he meant to talk about health, he should have said, “being unhealthy is ugly.” and if he wanted it to be his opinion, he should have either A)Kept it himself or B)Stated so in a less inflammatory way. Furthermore, as already pointed out, it’s been done to death. Yet he had to add his two cents in an offensive manner, why? I’m led to believe it’s because he’s a jerk. Once again, with feeling, I don’t give a fuck what he does or does not find attractive. I’m not sleeping with him, so, really, it doesn’t matter to me. _However_ his attitude, and others who have a similar one, disturb me a great deal, because it _is_ a disgusting attitude to have. It’s extremely judgemental, condensending, ignorant, and arrogant. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/74 "2001-11-04T06:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > . I think we can all think of other “opinions” that people have that, if posted, would even have you yourself joining in to flame them - even though it is, in fact, just their opinion. An opinion about one persons personal preferences of attraction? I’m not so sure about that. Sure, if someone comes in and says “It’s my opinion that black people are stupid” or “it’s my opinion that People from North Carolina all fuck their cousins”, then, yes, I will hop in on the flaming. But he expressed an opinion about WHAT HE FINDS (or doesn’t find) ATTRACTIVE. Why does that make people mad? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/75 "2001-11-04T06:47:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by threemae \* > \*\*Did you ever even read my response? \*\* Threemae: Did it ever occur to you that I was directing my post at _other_ people besides you? Sure, I mentioned your name at the beginning, but I do tend to ramble a bit, so I certainly wasn’t _just_ addressing you through the whole thing. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. And do you (any of you, not just threemae) understand the distinction between “I’m not attracted to this” and “THIS IS **UGLY** ”? Because I see a huge difference there. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/76 "2001-11-04T06:50:05Z")
**mouthbreather** If he was just going to state an opinion why did he make a pit thread? He thought that someone who thought that saying fat wasn’t ugly was bad enough to start a pit thread over. He is saying “I define the standard of beauty” and does not like the idea of someone thinking that fat people are beautiful. And if you think that its only fat people who get offended by this you are wrong. I doubt I could actually become fat as I have a low metabolism, don’t excercise much, and I don’t pay any attention to dieting and I am if anything on the skinny side of average. > [@](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding the other side’s argument. I have the strange feeling that you’re doing it on purpose. I can’t figure out why yet, but this whole thread just strikes me as odd. > I don’t know what this is though. I think that if he is doing it on purpose it is because he doesen’t like the idea of people not judging others based on their looks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/77 "2001-11-04T06:50:49Z")
You’re not supposed to fish by throwing dynamite into the pool. Too easy. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/78 "2001-11-04T06:51:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > it _is_ a disgusting attitude to have. It’s extremely judgemental, condensending, ignorant, and arrogant. \*\* I’d like to keep this civil – please clarify a few things for me, if you don’t mind. Judgemental? Isn’t all _physical_ attraction judgemental, whether it be positive or negative? Condescending? Please explain. Ignorant? Please explain. Arrogant? Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/79 "2001-11-04T06:51:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\* > > Now, you’ve been on the SDMB for a long time, so I’m confident that you understand we’re all here to fight ignorance. Do you understand that it’s ignorant to make sweeping claims like “fat is ugly”? \*\* Well actually I don’t think it is ignorant to claim that fat is ugly. And I’m afraid I’ll have to dispute your claims that this is a place where we’re all here to fight ignorance. Places like the Pit, MPSIMS, Cafe Society, and IMHO are not areas devoted to fighting ignorance and enjoy some amount of popularity. But you know something, ugly really wasn’t the right word to use. I’ve been thinking about it and I can’t say I’ve met all that many people in my life, fat or otherwise, who I thought ugly. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Do you also understand that it’s ignorant to judge people based on looks? Do you further understand that not only are you being ignorant, you are actively defending ignorance, as well as being a jackass and a jerk. \*\* I didn’t judge anyone as a person based on their appearance. For example I didn’t accuse fat people of being lazy, stupid, or lacking in willpower. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2001, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397/80 "2001-11-04T06:54:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mouthbreather \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > . I think we can all think of other “opinions” that people have that, if posted, would even have you yourself joining in to flame them - even though it is, in fact, just their opinion. > > An opinion about one persons personal preferences of attraction? I’m not so sure about that. > > Sure, if someone comes in and says “It’s my opinion that black people are stupid” or “it’s my opinion that People from North Carolina all fuck their cousins”, then, yes, I will hop in on the flaming. But he expressed an opinion about WHAT HE FINDS (or doesn’t find) ATTRACTIVE. > > Why does that make people mad? \*\* While you do have a good point here, I have to ask you: If the point is just that it is a personal opinion, and not a view which one is trying to espouse to others, why make a whole Pit thread about it? And I do not hold Marc to higher standard than others, for many people do the same here on a daily basis. But, you surely must agree that making a whole thread to say (essentially) “IMO, fat is ugly.” is going to get this response, yes? Our opinions are very valid to ourselves, and we are entitled to them. But when we go out of our way to make them public, then one must expect those that disagree to respond with…well, with what we see here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-is-ugly-well-yes/91397.md?page=5)