# Fat Soldiers and Officers - How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871 "2012-12-03T17:20:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/21 "2012-12-04T17:17:07Z")
[![](https://i.imgur.com/4hVFQ.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/4hVFQ.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/22 "2012-12-04T17:21:12Z")
Wasn’t getting really fat one of the strategies young men employed during the Vietnam era to avoid the draft? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/23 "2012-12-04T17:24:12Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > What is their function? Bakers? ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/24 "2012-12-04T17:24:44Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > [Imgur: The magic of the Internet](http://i.imgur.com/4hVFQ.jpg) Only ever knew two Marines who were that fat, and both of them were attempting to earn a discharge by being outside of physical standards. May be this fellow’s intent, as well. ---
**Author:** ![living\_in\_hell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@living\_in\_hell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/living_in_hell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/25 "2012-12-04T17:28:13Z")
Are you talking about active duty combat soldiers? Like any job, there is a huge difference among those who are on their feet all day carrying heavy weighted supplies in extreme temperatures… and those who sit at desks and behind computers all day. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/26 "2012-12-04T17:30:07Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > This is precisely what is happening. I don’t think leadership is helping anyone pass (anymore). Rather, like **Airman Doors** says, you can essentially fail 4 PT tests before you get the boot. With 90 days to retest (maybe?), that’s a solid year that you can be completely unfit and still serve. If you show improvement at any point, even without passing, the clock can be put on hold. If you improve enough to pass, the clock is reset, and then you can go back to failing. Furthermore, there are medical waivers that can get you out of all or, usually, some of the test (like the 1.5 mile run). Surprise surprise, overweight people often have medical problems. The waivers are supposed to be temporary, but there’s nothing stopping you from getting a new waiver for a different problem right after the previous one expires. Long story short, enterprising troops can go 2 or 3 years while failing standards. Leadership generally doesn’t like this, and as someone else mentioned, promotions, transfers, and re-enlistments are essentially out of the question. A lot of times, this just means that someone at 17 years can drag out their time long enough to retire at 20; for a lot of career military, being “forced” to retire at 20 is punishment enough, as many would like to serve 30+. Which brings me to my last point – the _only_ time in recent years that I’ve seen leadership participate in any PT test shenanigans is when someone is real close to 20 years but can’t drag it out anymore. Giving someone 6 to 9 months of looking the other way is generally viewed as preferable to kicking someone out at 19 years of service and dealing with the fallout (in one case that I remember, a congressman got involved). But that’s an exception; I’ve seen lots of people with 12-16 years given the boot for failing to meet standards. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/27 "2012-12-04T18:19:12Z")
Why are there fat police officers and firemen? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/28 "2012-12-04T18:40:34Z")
My dad was career military. Had three hernia operations before he was 40. One disc fused in his back a couple years after retirement. He certainly wasn’t a prime physical specimen his last ten years in the military. But, he was an an instrument tech and later first Sergeant after he got back from Viet Nam. He was never over weight. But, he wasn’t a weight lifter or runner either. ---
**Author:** ![Snite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Snite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snite)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/29 "2012-12-04T23:15:35Z")
I can tell you that in the Army it’s a long, convoluted process to get a soldier kicked out for being overweight and most NCO’s aren’t interested in going through that much work. conduct PT test Weigh the solider Conducted tape test of soldier to determine BMI If it’s over the standard (don’t remember the standard off the top of my head) you conducted a negative counseling and initiate extra PT Should he fail a second time, you can try to initiate AR 680-9 which requires first a counseling session by the company commander - a very busy company commander who will likely lecture you about needing to find a solution to your “leadership challenge” on your own. Soldier gets a counseling session with a dietician. After that you PT test, weigh, and tape the soldier every month. The soldier must lose 3 pounds each month until he meets tape standards. If he goes 2 months without doing so he gets… um… trying to remember here… either a bar of re-enlistment or a chapter process. Not sure. I was the only squad leader I knew (and I was Infantry no less) who actually took the necessary steps to follow through on all of it. And when I did, my fatbody soldier suddenly developed an ankle injury and a medical profile and got moved out of my squad. So basically, it’s just a problem of lazy NCOs. So many soldiers in the Army are disgustingly obese because no one’s willing to do the work to prevent it. Regular morning PT doesn’t prevent it either for some reason. It just doesn’t seem to burn enough calories. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/30 "2012-12-05T00:03:22Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Why are there fat police officers and firemen? Because their organizations have fewer and less stringent requirements, enforced with less rigor, than the military. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/31 "2012-12-05T12:58:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > In the army there are height and weight standards. If you are heavier than allowed you have to take a tape test. They measure your neck and waist and calculate the body fat percentage. IANAE on this policy but in the Marines, the policy was similar to this. At least it was 20 years ago when I retired. Height and weight were measured during the PFT. That was the data point used for identifying people for weight control. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/32 "2012-12-05T13:57:07Z")
A lot of soldiers spend their careers constantly on the borderline. They struggle with the PT test, fail the tape. The unit makes them exercise more and see a nutritionist or something, they lose weight, pass the tests. Rinse repeat. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/33 "2012-12-05T14:16:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Regular morning PT doesn’t prevent it either for some reason. It just doesn’t seem to burn enough calories. There’s only so much an NCO can do on their own. You can force a Soldier to do the bare minimum to get through that day’s PT session, but if they spend the rest of the day eating unhealthy food they have no one to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/34 "2012-12-05T14:26:30Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > There’s only so much an NCO can do on their own. You can force a Soldier to do the bare minimum to get through that day’s PT session, but if they spend the rest of the day eating unhealthy food they have no one to blame. And what’s morning PT burn off, anyway? 30 minutes of calesthenics and a 3-4 mile run…maybe 5-600? That’s two bottles of soda and a Snickers bar. ---
**Author:** ![Klostertal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@Klostertal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klostertal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/35 "2012-12-05T15:22:49Z")
A list of acronyms and words in this thread which I do not understand: ACUs deck ape types TRADOC OPTEMP CSMofA RIF PFT Clarification would be cool. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/36 "2012-12-05T15:32:56Z")
ACU - Army Combat Uniform, replaced Battle Dress Uniform pattern a few years ago deck ape types - ? TRADOC - Training and Doctrine Command, responsible for schooling new recruits OPTEMP - Operational Tempo, essentially the pace of repeated deployments and operations CSMofA - Command Sergeant Major of the Army, the senior enlisted Soldier who represents enlisted personnel before Congress RIF - ? PFT - Physical Fitness Test ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/37 "2012-12-05T15:38:06Z")
RIF = Reduction in Force, typically as part of a structured draw-down program. Used as a verb in many cases. “Dude failed his PT test so he moved to the top of the list to get RIFed.” ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/38 "2012-12-05T19:04:16Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > The one constantly changing thing about the Air Force is the PT test, so we’ll see how this shakes out, but for now it’s an absolute killer. I have 18 years in the Navy. I’ve never once thought my test was a “killer.” A mile and a half run, some sit ups and push ups… for someone in the military, this should be easy. For rear-echelon, even easier–sitting at a desk is no excuse. Simply make your troops PT three times a week, strictly adhere to the test standards and failure programs (I’m assuming the AF has something similar to what the Navy has), and most of your people should pass. It is entirely a leadership failure for anyone to fail one of these tests. Ultimate responsibility is at the Secretary level, where standards are low. I never see any fat Marines because the standards are high. As a 40-year old Marine, I need to be no more than 20% body fat, which is understandable when I’m facing a 3-mile run (not something easily passed unless you PT regularly). But they’re the only ones with tough standards. As a 40-year old Soldier, I can away with a whopping 26% body fat. As a Sailor, my limit is 23%. In the AF, I can squeak by with a 40-inch waist if I max my push-ups and sit-ups and do about a 13-min 1.5 mi run. All but the Marines seem to forget that we’re in the business of warfare and killing, even if you’re manning a desk. ---
**Author:** ![d1a1s1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@d1a1s1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d1a1s1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/39 "2012-12-06T09:02:37Z")
> [@flyboy](#): > > …It is entirely a leadership failure for anyone to fail one of these tests. I’m sick of hearing this. 19 years Navy here. Everyone is WELL aware of the standards. If they cant motivate themselves to follow them, then we don’t want them. Is it too much to ask that you be in shape in the military?? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871/40 "2012-12-07T20:34:09Z")
> [@Klostertal](#): > > A list of acronyms and words in this thread which I do not understand: > > … > deck ape types > … > Clarification would be cool. Thanks. If you’ve seen _Independence Day_, when Will Smith is stealing the army chopper to go rescue his girlfriend & the first lady, he is approached by a FREAKING HUGE guy who tries to order him out of the chopper. Sadly, he’s not the hero in the story, so Will just says “Tell them I hit you” and flies away. Or, if you’ve seen _Raiders of the Lost Ark,_ the guy who Indy has the fight with next to the rotating plane. Really big, really strong, and strong enough to carry an extra hundred pounds of penalty weight like it was nothing. These guys will eff you up if they get their hands on you, but they’re not too hard to run away from. Unless they’re armed, in which case you’re screwed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fat-soldiers-and-officers-how/642871.md?page=3)