# Fatal attack at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado springs, 20 Nov 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [November 20, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260 "2022-11-20T14:34:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/1 "2022-11-20T14:34:10Z")
At least 5 killed in shooting at LGBTQ club in Colorado Springs > **[Suspect in deadly LGBTQ club shooting was subdued by patrons, Colorado police...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/20/colorado-springs-lgbtq-clubq-shooting/)** > > Colorado Springs police said five people were killed and at least 25 were injured in the shooting at the Club Q nightclub. The suspect was hospitalized. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/2 "2022-11-20T18:55:21Z")
Not good, not good at all. But “suspect in hospital” is about the best police outcome you can have. No further community risk from that person and some hope of learning more about what was going on in his (my guess, but probably a good one) confused little brain. And if this guy has friends, some ability to track them down. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/3 "2022-11-20T19:11:44Z")
Yeah. Good job by the people in the club who apparently subdued him. But still absolutely horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/4 "2022-11-20T19:21:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > But “suspect in hospital” is about the best police outcome you can have As the police outcome had nothing to do with it I think a better outcome would have been “shot dead before he killed anybody”, ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/5 "2022-11-20T19:25:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think a better outcome would have been “shot dead before he killed anybody”, I don’t. If society is in the habit of shooting anyone who looks suspicious, an awful lot of innocent people will be shot dead. “Tackled as he fired, such that the shot didn’t hit anyone” would be a better outcome. “Subdued after the first shots” wouldn’t be as good as that, but would be better than what happened. And “subdued” seems like a better outcome than “killed”. More expense, I suppose, as we’ll have to pay to imprison him, but it does mean that the police have a shot at tracking down any potential accomplices, supporters, etc. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/6 "2022-11-20T19:31:08Z")
I will say, with no further comment, that it’s becoming increasingly common for CNN to have stories of more than one newsworthy shooting on the same day. Currently the other one is at a University of New Mexico campus. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/7 "2022-11-20T19:32:47Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I don’t. If society is in the habit of shooting anyone who looks suspicious, an awful lot of innocent people will be shot dead. I didn’t suggested attacking a suspicious person unless you think brandishing a gun is suspicious and not an immediate threat > [@puzzlegal](#): > > “Tackled as he fired, such that the shot didn’t hit anyone” would be a better outcome. Killed before he fired eliminates the threat and saves prison resources so it’s a green solution. The police gain almost nothing with a live body. They’re going to go through his life with a fine toothed comb regardless of the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/8 "2022-11-20T19:51:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Killed before he fired eliminates the threat and saves prison resources so it’s a green solution. The police gain almost nothing with a live body. They’re going to go through his life with a fine toothed comb regardless of the outcome. ⁢ A subdued person is not merely a “live body.” They can talk. They can be interrogated. That was literally @puzzlegal’s point before you posted. An investigation with interrogation and trial is far more likely to find information than an investigation alone after the suspect is dead. Plus the police tend to put more resources in an investigation where the suspect can still be tried. Plus if this was a suicide by cop scenario (which I believe many if not most mass shootings are), then the suspect effectively gets away with it if you kill them. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/9 "2022-11-20T20:02:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I didn’t suggested attacking a suspicious person unless you think brandishing a gun is suspicious and not an immediate threat So, um, you think brandishing a gun is suspicious and worth shooting at, but you don’t think the “good guy with the gun” is then ALSO suspicious and worth shooting at? It happens, you know – the police show up and shoot the guy who is trying to protect innocents, and not the initial perp. Naw, better that the guy was captured alive, and also better than none of the good guys were waving guns around. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/10 "2022-11-20T20:06:55Z")
I thought Uvalde put and end to the Good Guy With A Gun fantasy. As it happened, I’m glad that the clubgoers were able to respond quickly and subdue the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/11 "2022-11-20T22:47:57Z")
Since this is an in-town shooting for me, it’s extremely uncomfortable. I have formally local friends (still friends, no longer local) that went there to enjoy the embrace of a community that otherwise feels quite isolated by all the FotF fanatics, so it was quite painful. At least all the local radio stations are bringing it up and denouncing the hate (well, maybe not radio godblast, but screw them) while offering contact information to support the victims. My concern is that despite the love in the community, they may feel unsafe re-opening. If they do manage, my wife has decided (and I agreed) we’ll go for a brunch option in the near future to show our support. ETA - FotF is Focus on the Family, of which I will not speak on more due to the nature of the thread. Just realized I hadn’t explained it after saving the post, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/12 "2022-11-20T22:53:54Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > it’s extremely uncomfortable. Yeah, violence like this has a lot of victims. Not just those who were killed, and their families. Not just the other people in the venue at the time. But the community. Everyone who ever went there, or has friends who went there, or those who go to a similar venue are damaged by this kind of random violence. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/13 "2022-11-20T23:00:28Z")
I’m reading that the murderer had an encounter involving the police and a bomb last year. I won’t hijack this thread with my concerns about the state of mental health care in America so I’m going to bow out. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/14 "2022-11-20T23:38:10Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > A subdued person is not merely a “live body.” They can talk Yah, I got that. But you are weighing little or no gain in evidence against the chance he will continue to kill. This is the age of data. Most everything someone does is recorded in one form or another. Put another way, if 3 people died in the process of subduing the shooter then finding out which bus he took from crazytown wasn’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/15 "2022-11-20T23:39:48Z")
Is that what happened? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/16 "2022-11-20T23:42:16Z")
And I also heard on CNN within the past hour that a second person is in custody. Those people who subdued the suspect are beyond heroic, because they did this knowing full well that it might have been a suicidal mission. I’m always satisfied (almost said happy, but that’s not the right word either) when someone like this is taken into custody alive, because then we can figure out why they did it, etc. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/17 "2022-11-20T23:49:19Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Is that what happened? Nope. I’m reading that a heroic bystander grabbed the shooter’s gun and hit him over the head with it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/18 "2022-11-20T23:51:54Z")
Oh, that’s good. Hypothetical imaginary nonsense doesn’t really do anything for those traumatized by this slaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/19 "2022-11-20T23:59:13Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Is that what happened? There are no do-overs on the decision to act. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/20 "2022-11-21T00:06:35Z")
That’s heavy. But thanks for the introduction of fantasy bullshit to this thread. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260.md?page=2)