# Fatal attack at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado springs, 20 Nov 2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [November 20, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260 "2022-11-20T14:34:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/41 "2022-11-21T20:24:51Z")
From the [live updates](https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/colorado-springs-club-q-shooting-11-21-22/index.html) on [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) > Online court records show that the suspected Club Q shooter is facing multiple murder and hate crime charges. > > Anderson Aldrich is facing five counts of first degree murder and five counts of a bias-motivated crime causing bodily injury, according to the online docket in El Paso County Courts. > > Aldrich remains hospitalized following injuries sustained during the incident, and charges have not been formally filed, Colorado Springs Police Chief told CNN on Monday. So, sadly surprising no one at all, it was a targeted hate crime beyond any reasonable doubt based on the charges soon to be filed. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/42 "2022-11-21T20:26:02Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Here’s one that particularly struck me recently: > > > Does your church need armed guards? > > 'Cuz our synagogue does. And churches could reply “Yes, we do. Have you paid _any_ attention to the past few years?” > **[U.S. houses of worship increase security after shootings](https://apnews.com/article/religion-shootings-violence-d114519eeb52ee7ba168ab6237d3ced6)** > > Houses of worship are meant to be places of shelter, reflection and peace, where strangers are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/43 "2022-11-21T20:35:55Z")
My synagogue has been locked and has paid for professional security since about 2017. We’ve always had some security, but this is a new level, and we pay a new security assessment. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/44 "2022-11-21T20:51:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And churches could reply “Yes, we do. Have you paid _any_ attention to the past few years?” > > [U.S. houses of worship increase security after shootings | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/religion-shootings-violence-d114519eeb52ee7ba168ab6237d3ced6) Quite right. What is interesting to me is that in the article they talked about various bad guys attacking a Taiwanese Christian congregation, a black Christian congregation, and two Jewish congregations. Which is a bit different and more focused targeting than the “US houses of worship…” headline would imply while shown over a picture of what’s evidently a recent construction suburban (so presumably white & Protestant) church. IOW the article’s title & pic seem to say “Mainstream Christian white churches have a security problem”, while the contents say “Only non-white and/or non-Christian churches have a security problem.” I’m not accusing you of bad faith in posting the cite. I think the cite itself has some internal shortcomings. I’m a white atheist. I have no direct personal care _which_ religious groups are attacked because I’m a member of none of them. But I’d much rather the answer be “no groups”, because any group is a group too many. And I’d much rather the answer be “no attacks” because any attack is an attack too many. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/45 "2022-11-21T21:02:24Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’m not accusing you of bad faith in posting the cite. I think the cite itself has some internal shortcomings. How about this one? > **[How Frequently Do Church Shootings Occur? - Lifeway Research](https://research.lifeway.com/2020/02/12/how-frequently-do-church-shootings-occur/)** > > Since the Columbine school shooting in April 1999, there have been 23 fatal church shootings. The deadliest was Sutherland Springs in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/46 "2022-11-21T21:10:27Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > How about this one? I do find it interesting that the article enumerates a list of shootings at Christian churches (with name of the church, location, and date for each), but then lumps everything else into a secondary paragraph, in which it says “including at a Jewish synagogue” – that use of the singular, alone, is deceptive, as there have been two fatal shootings at American synagogues in the recent past ([Pittsburgh in 2018](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_synagogue_shooting) and [Poway, California in 2019](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poway_synagogue_shooting)), plus the [hostage-taking at a Texas synagogue](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colleyville_synagogue_hostage_crisis) by a gunman earlier this year, and shootings at [a Jewish community center and a Jewish retirement community](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_Park_Jewish_Community_Center_shooting) (so, not technically synagogue shootings) in Kanas in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/47 "2022-11-21T21:17:58Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I do find it interesting that the article enumerates a list of shootings at Christian churches (with name of the church, location, and date for each), but then lumps everything else into a secondary paragraph It is an article on a Christian website for and about Christian concerns, why would barely mentioning “the other guys” come off as odd to you? My point was, that sign LSLguy posted seemed to be implying that Jews had to be concerned about security at their houses of worship while Christians had the privilege of not having to worry. And that sentiment is, quite simply, horseshit. [Security is very high on the minds of Christian churches](https://www.agfinancial.org/resources/article/concealed-carry-church-safety). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/48 "2022-11-21T21:20:49Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > why would barely mentioning “the other guys” come off as odd to you? In part that it relegated non-Christian churches to a parenthetical point (but, yeah, it’s a Christian church site, so not too surprising) but what bothered me was that it also seemed to be minimizing what’s also happened at synagogues and Jewish centers, by making it sound like there had been “a shooting” (singular) only. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/49 "2022-11-21T21:21:59Z")
Have you considered that maybe the article was written after the first but before the second? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/50 "2022-11-21T21:23:01Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > In part that it relegated non-Christian churches to a parenthetical point (but, yeah, it’s a Christian church site, so not too surprising) but what bothered me was that it also seemed to be minimizing what’s also happened at synagogues and Jewish centers, by making it sound like there had been “a shooting” (singular) only. And the fact that there are 100 churches for every synagogue in the US. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/51 "2022-11-21T21:23:32Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Have you considered that maybe the article was written after the first but before the second? The article has a publication date of February, 2020; the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting was in October, 2018, and the California synagogue shooting was in April, 2019. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/52 "2022-11-21T21:25:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@bobot](#): > > > > Is that what happened? > > Nope. I’m reading that a heroic bystander grabbed the shooter’s gun and hit him over the head with it. Just wanted to provide a cite for this, which I wasn’t sure was true at the time posted but [apparently a man did tackle the gunman and hit him with one of his own weapons.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/us/colorado-springs-shooting-club-q-hero.html?unlocked_article_code=nJqEXqRd7Xn_Vh_Z8KMRUic41mXHfMDlul0pUSnoc85poAY1eIK9vpAMoQL4R2y3Ej6LwEn1BGCKl14nosR4R3ClrhHu7-8T2ZfXUHX_2KrgohHvnP0lkUt6E274WHSiJFT3HjdtfT55ufxiz5Rca688vBSM16Mm86fCy5ftcCpSZlg-nIiRGYH19pp7OURtjAdAVs1oBanareRt5-_zf54mzr2_D8T3EfZvyX2kSQjvrJE4_u6NTU5F3q3zasER969yeRzuq0j_zUCfmSbr4Bt11K-mVccDbJEmcRIwglkbk2wSOTeZgqO2VoMx-Cx21jTZICwVwNJ1ks51e8B1iGlm5xcLfrcQNxs&smid=share-url) Substantiated by video footage of the attack at the club. That’s a brave, badass dude, to take on a gunman when he himself was unarmed. I’m glad he survived. The sad thing is that Mr. Fierro thought he was done with war and violence and never expected he’d have to deal with this at home, with his family beside him. His wife and daughter were both injured during the attack but are recovering. ---
**Author:** ![teelabrown](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teelabrown/32/8412_2.png) [@teelabrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teelabrown)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/53 "2022-11-21T21:44:50Z")
Mr. Fierro deserves a medal for this. From that NY Times article, bit of schadenfreude in all the mayhem: While Fierro held the gunman down, " . . . A drag dancer stomped on the gunman with her high heels. . . ." I hope it was an exceptionally burly drag queen with strong, well-muscled legs. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/54 "2022-11-21T22:26:40Z")
**Moderator Note** Just a reminder that this is a breaking news thread for discussion of the Colorado Springs nightclub attack. While related incidents like church shootings are definitely discussions that are worth having, this is not the thread for these discussions. Please try to keep all posts in this thread directly relevant to the Colorado Springs attack. Also, keep in mind that breaking news rules apply. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/55 "2022-11-21T22:35:01Z")
My apologies, and thank you for putting the thread back on course, @engineer_comp_geek . ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/56 "2022-11-21T23:58:06Z")
AFAIK, all the people who died in this disaster were white, and ISTR that he chose this church because he knew some of them! The picture is of a parishioner who took him down. > **[Sutherland Springs church shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting)** > > The Sutherland Springs church shooting occurred on November 5, 2017, when Devin Patrick Kelley, of New Braunfels, Texas, perpetrated a mass shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Kelley killed 26 people, wounded 22 others, and killed himself. The attack is the deadliest mass shooting in Texas history, and the fifth-deadliest in the United States.\[note 1\] It was the deadliest shooting in an American place of worship, surpassing the Charleston church shooting of 2015\[... I can’t believe they let him into the military, but for a while there, they were letting in pretty much anything that could fog a mirror. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/57 "2022-11-22T00:20:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Just wanted to provide a cite for this, which I wasn’t sure was true at the time posted but [apparently a man did tackle the gunman and hit him with one of his own weapons](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/21/us/colorado-springs-shooting-club-q-hero.html?unlocked_article_code=nJqEXqRd7Xn_Vh_Z8KMRUic41mXHfMDlul0pUSnoc85poAY1eIK9vpAMoQL4R2y3Ej6LwEn1BGCKl14nosR4R3ClrhHu7-8T2ZfXUHX_2KrgohHvnP0lkUt6E274WHSiJFT3HjdtfT55ufxiz5Rca688vBSM16Mm86fCy5ftcCpSZlg-nIiRGYH19pp7OURtjAdAVs1oBanareRt5-_zf54mzr2_D8T3EfZvyX2kSQjvrJE4_u6NTU5F3q3zasER969yeRzuq0j_zUCfmSbr4Bt11K-mVccDbJEmcRIwglkbk2wSOTeZgqO2VoMx-Cx21jTZICwVwNJ1ks51e8B1iGlm5xcLfrcQNxs&smid=share-url) - When the shooting started, Mr. Fierro said, he hit the floor, pulling a friend down with him. As bullets sprayed, he saw the gunman move through the bar toward a door leading to a patio where dozens of bar patrons had fled. Mr. Fierro, who served in the Army for 15 years[,](https://www.atrevidabeerco.com/home) said he raced across the room, grabbed the gunman by a handle on the back of his body armor, pulled him to the floor and jumped on top of him. - “Was he shooting at the time? Was he about to shoot? I don’t know,” Mr. Fierro said. “I just knew I had to take him down.” - The gunman, who Mr. Fierro estimated weighed more than 300 pounds, sprawled onto the floor, his military-style rifle landing just out of reach. Mr. Fierro started to go for the rifle, but then saw that the gunman had a pistol as well. - “I grabbed the gun out of his hand and just started hitting him in the head, over and over,” Mr. Fierro said. I don’t know if he was associated with the bar or was a patron. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/58 "2022-11-22T00:28:15Z")
He was there with his family. That says patron to me. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/59 "2022-11-22T00:35:08Z")
He owns a brewery, says the NYT. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260/60 "2022-11-22T01:08:42Z")
The Washington Post article says he was there with his family because his daughter’s friend was in the drag show > **[Army veteran recounts subduing gunman at Colorado LGBTQ club](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/21/clubq-shooter-stopped-army-veteran/)** > > Richard Fierro said he was aided by others as he halted the shooting that interrupted a celebratory night at Club Q in Colorado. > Richard Fierro went to Club Q in Colorado Springs on Saturday night to celebrate a friend’s birthday with his family, enjoying a drag show that included a performance by his 22-year-old daughter’s best friend. > … > “I had my whole Colorado Springs family in there. I had to do something. He was not going to kill my family,” Fierro said. “I just want people to take care of people, the people who are hurt and no longer with us. I still got two of my best friends who are in the hospital. They still need prayers; they still need support.” It’s probably paywalled, but it’s a very moving article, with a lot of details from taking with him and others who were there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-attack-at-lgbtq-nightclub-in-colorado-springs-20-nov-2022/975260.md?page=4)