# Fatal crowd surge at Houston concert \[Incident From NOV2021\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 6, 2021, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887 "2021-11-06T12:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/41 "2021-11-08T16:02:39Z")
Good questions. If there are law suits or a trial, the answers may be forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/42 "2021-11-08T16:17:51Z")
Those instances were not the Houston concert. I mentioned in that post that he had a history of bad behavior with the crowd, but it didn’t sound like that was the case in Houston. In fact, he paused his performance multiple times to get help for people in distress. I’m not sure pausing was enough – it should have been shut down – but I don’t think he necessarily should have known to do that, or had the responsibility to make that call. I haven’t seen anything saying he incited the crush. > [@Loach](#): > > Is that what he did in Houston? No. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/43 "2021-11-08T16:38:07Z")
Since we’re sharing past events, I’ll mention the gravity-assisted crush at UW-Madison’s Camp Randall Stadium back in 1993. I was a student there at the time, and I remember looking out my apartment window and seeing ambulance after ambulance entering the stadium before anything got announced on the TV about what was happening. No fatalities, but some serious injuries. > **[Camp Randall Stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Randall_Stadium#%22The_Camp_Randall_Crush%22)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Former > Camp Randall Stadium is an outdoor stadium in Madison, Wisconsin, located on the campus of the University of Wisconsin. It has been the home of the Wisconsin Badgers football team in rudimentary form since 1895, and as a fully functioning stadium since 1917. The oldest and fifth largest stadium in the Big Ten Conference, Camp Randall is the 41st largest stadium in the world, with a seating capacity of 80,321. > The field has a conventional... ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/44 "2021-11-08T19:03:19Z")
When I was a kid in Chicago, every weekend we were at general admission concerts at the Aragon Brawlroom and other venues. I was pretty much of the, “If you try hard enough, you can get up to the stage” mentality. Often, it would get quite unpleasant up there such that we wouldn’t stay for long, but I never really felt afraid. The worst experience I had was awaiting a gen adm concert by UFO at the [UofI’s auditorium.](https://foellinger.illinois.edu). We got there hours early, and just hung out and partied right up next to the doors. As the hours passed, all of the stairs and the level space below them filled up with people. The doors had not even opened yet - nothing was happening - but at one point, the pressure from behind started increasing. 1000 or so people were just pressing towards the front, where we were jammed up against the doors between those big columns. I remember one guy trying to get people to push back - which only invited more pressure in return. No one ended up getting hurt (and I did end up being the first thru the door!), but can really remember it some 40 years later. No, I’m no longer much for crowds. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/45 "2021-11-08T19:08:12Z")
> **[Travis Scott to Refund All Astroworld Attendees, Cancels Day N Vegas Festival...](https://variety.com/2021/music/news/travis-scott-refund-all-astroworld-tickets-buyers-day-n-las-vegas-headline-canceled-1235107124/)** > > Travis Scott will provide full refunds to all who bought tickets to Astroworld and has canceled his headlining slot at Day N Vegas Festival. > Sources describe Scott as “too distraught to play” and reveal that he will provide full refunds for all attendees who bought tickets to Astroworld. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/46 "2021-11-08T19:13:01Z")
Well… not _all_ of them. Too soon? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/47 "2021-11-08T20:01:43Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Well… not _all_ of them. [He’s paying for their funeral expenses.](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/travis-scott-funeral-costs-1254860/) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/48 "2021-11-08T20:45:08Z")
OK, I feel bad to the proper level for my joke. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/49 "2021-11-09T02:58:32Z")
I heard this on NPR this afternoon. TL : DL - the promoter has a long list of safety violations, and may have been responsible, directly or not, for more than 200 deaths at shows they hosted. > **[Live Nation, a company behind Astroworld, has a long history of safety...](https://www.npr.org/2021/11/08/1053548075/live-nation-a-company-behind-astroworld-has-a-long-history-of-safety-violations)** > > Live Nation is the biggest live-events company in the world. Court records and federal citations show that the company was already linked to 200 other deaths and 750 injuries before Friday's tragedy. One of those shows was the Jason Aldean concert/Las Vegas shooting. I don’t see how Live Nation could have been responsible for that, or even prevented it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/50 "2021-11-09T04:17:38Z")
I just found out that this Travis guy is the SO of one Kylie Jenner, and the father of her 3-year-old daughter and another child due in a few months. And the 3-year-old was at that show! What could possibly go wrong with all that, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/51 "2021-11-09T04:44:26Z")
I doubt if the band can tell what’s going on in the crowd so there would need to be a group of people specifically monitoring it. They would then have to signal the band to shut it down until safety is restored. If the band fails to react to that then power is cut to the sound system and the lights are turned up with a general announcement. The motivation for the safety of their fans is going to be universal for entertainers. So I think any planning along these lines will be welcomed and sought after. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/52 "2021-11-09T09:41:34Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And the 3-year-old was at that show! What could possibly go wrong with all that, anyway? It is highly unlikely that the 3 year old was out in the standing-room-only crowd. The kid would either be backstage or in a VIP area. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/53 "2021-11-09T18:45:22Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > Those instances were not the Houston concert. I mentioned in that post that he had a history of bad behavior with the crowd, but it didn’t sound like that was the case in Houston. The fact that his general behavior over time encouraged disorderly and dangerous crowd behavior is a fact that good lawyers are going to repeatedly stress during the trials. Since a number of lawsuits against him and the organizers have already been filed, I guess we will see how this all plays out. Personally, I don’t like any events where people are not seated in specific seats assigned via a ticketing system. It should be outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/54 "2021-11-09T18:52:19Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > One of those shows was the Jason Aldean concert/Las Vegas shooting. I don’t see how Live Nation could have been responsible for that, or even prevented it. I don’t know, but you could imagine things like insufficient or inaccessible exits preventing escape ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/55 "2021-11-09T20:01:09Z")
Didn’t security fail to hold back an unticketed crowd, that then overwhelmed one of the entrances? I thought I saw footage on the news. That means it’s likely they were over capacity too. That’s got to be liability to the venue/promoter/security team, I should think. Wouldn’t they be easier targets than the performer? I’m not saying he’s entirely innocent here, based on his past bad behaviour, but, in this instance he seems to have been openly concerned and attempting to help. How was it though, that his girl, his kid, her sister, (Kardashians) all got spirited successfully away and out of harms way, but, at that same moment zero aid or assistance was available to those being crushed/dying? Maybe plenty of lawsuits to go around, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/56 "2021-11-09T22:54:02Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > How was it though, that his girl, his kid, her sister, (Kardashians) all got spirited successfully away and out of harms way, but, at that same moment zero aid or assistance was available to those being crushed/dying? There is no way they were in the mass crowd of regular people. I’m sure they were elsewhere, backstage or in a private area. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/57 "2021-11-10T00:44:58Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I just found out that this Travis guy is the SO of one Kylie Jenner, and the father of her 3-year-old daughter and another child due in a few months. > > And the 3-year-old was at that show! What could possibly go wrong with all that, anyway? I’m no fan of his, but having your SO and kid at your performance doesn’t strike me as anything bad (as long as they protect the kid’s hearing). Not sure why this is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/58 "2021-11-10T04:18:19Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Personally, I don’t like any events where people are not seated in specific seats assigned via a ticketing system. It should be outlawed. Hey, it’s fine to not like it. But outlawed? You and I obviously don’t go to the same kind of shows. Chairs would _cause_ injury and death at a metal show. I saw Nine Inch Nails (yeah, not exactly metal, but similar enough) in the mid nineties and the idiot promoter or whomever had the bright idea of setting up chairs zipped tied together in the pit area. The show started and it immediately turned into a typical pit and people were falling and tripping and getting yangled up in the chairs. Reznor stopped the show and had tha audience rip the chairs apart and pile them up off to the side before he continued. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/59 "2021-11-10T04:23:59Z")
There’s going to be an addition to the death count: With no brain activity it’s a question of when they decide to pull the plug: > **[Texas A&M student has no brain activity after being injured during...](https://abc13.com/bharti-shahani-astroworld-victims-texas-am-student-dies-what-happened-at-festival/11215684/)** > > The family of 22-year-old Bharti Shahani says she suffered multiple heart attacks. She remains on a ventilator in the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2021, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887/60 "2021-11-10T04:38:09Z")
I could see concerts of this size resort to tactics similar to how they control crowds in Times Square for New Year’s Eve. First come first serve partitioned areas with capacity limits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatal-crowd-surge-at-houston-concert-incident-from-nov2021/953887.md?page=4)