# Fate of Tony Soprano **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458 "2020-06-11T15:01:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/1 "2020-06-11T15:01:11Z")
Sleeping with the fishes as many people thought. > **[The Sopranos creator once accidentally confirmed Tony's fate](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/sopranos-ending-final-scene-does-tony-die-david-chase-book-spoiler-what-happened-a9560381.html)** > > Fans may have an answer to whether Tony perished in the show's closing moments ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/2 "2020-06-11T15:05:23Z")
I thought the whole point was that it didn’t matter - he was already dead inside. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/3 "2020-06-11T15:07:00Z")
Gandolfini was tired of the show so that’s a big reason it ended. Did not make any sense for the show to go on without Tony ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/4 "2020-06-11T15:09:26Z")
I interpreted the ending as saying that he would never know when the hit would come, that he would always be at risk of being taken out. (Really, anyone can die at any time but he in particular had enemies who wished him ill.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/5 "2020-06-11T15:19:35Z")
I remember watching that scene and knowing something was off from the beginning. Granted, that’s how they wanted you to feel, remember Meadow trying to parallel park, that still makes me squirm. But what really struck me was that Tony put played Don’t Stop Believing, where he would typically pick doo-wop songs. Also, I think it was just a few episodes back when they were discussing what it was like to get shot and Tony said that you probably don’t even know it happened. You’re there and then everything goes black. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/6 "2020-06-11T15:23:43Z")
I remember watching the show live, seeing the fade to black and the delay before the credits started. I think we thought there was a technical error. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/7 "2020-06-11T15:36:49Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I remember watching that scene and knowing something was off from the beginning. Granted, that’s how they wanted you to feel, remember Meadow trying to parallel park, that still makes me squirm. But what really struck me was that Tony put played Don’t Stop Believing, where he would typically pick doo-wop songs. > > Also, I think it was just a few episodes back when they were discussing what it was like to get shot and Tony said that you probably don’t even know it happened. You’re there and then everything goes black. I think it was Bobby Baccala who said that about going black. Also the scene where Henry Hill was arrested in Goodfellas he said “I knew it was the cops because I was not dead” A lot of people including me thought that the cable went out at the last scene. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/8 "2020-06-11T15:41:11Z")
To me it was all about conditioning. The previous murders in that season were presented from the same viewpoints, so you were conditioned to subconciously know a murder was taking place, and didn’t need to see it for the final one… ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/9 "2020-06-11T15:47:18Z")
There was also the hit on Gerry Torciano, where Silvio was having dinner with him, and the first thing Silvio noticed is that he’s covered in blood all of a sudden. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ys\_4XiNnJ0](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ys_4XiNnJ0) Shoot the guy from behind in the head, and all he’d have seen was that the lights went out. I thought Tony was dead long before this confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/10 "2020-06-11T15:48:39Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > There was also the hit on Gerry Torciano, where Silvio was having dinner with him, and the first thing Silvio noticed is that he’s covered in blood all of a sudden. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ys\_4XiNnJ0](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ys_4XiNnJ0) > > Shoot the guy from behind in the head, and all he’d have seen was that the lights went out. > > I thought Tony was dead long before this confirmation. the odd thing there is I just can’t see a mafia guy using the term “metaphor” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/11 "2020-06-11T17:46:50Z")
I wondered if perhaps Tony was already dead by the time that scene unfolded and he was just having an end-of-life flash of the people he loved the most. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/12 "2020-06-11T18:54:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I remember watching the show live, seeing the fade to black and the delay before the credits started. I think we thought there was a technical error. Lol, I remember the internet just _exploding_ that night and for the next week or so. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/13 "2020-06-11T18:54:42Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Sleeping with the fishes as many people thought. > > [The Sopranos creator David Chase reflects on final scene, seems to accidentally confirm Tony’s fate | The Independent | The Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/sopranos-ending-final-scene-does-tony-die-david-chase-book-spoiler-what-happened-a9560381.html) That doesn’t confirm anything at all. David Chase has also said that it’s intentionally ambiguous. Based on a lot of discussion about the final scene, I was at one point convinced that Tony had in fact been whacked. But after reading some of Chase’s other comments, I now think that Tony is Schrodinger’s mobster, in limbo like the the Russian in the Pine Barrens. We can decide his fate based on our own interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/14 "2020-06-11T18:56:44Z")
> [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](#): > > I wondered if perhaps Tony was already dead by the time that scene unfolded and he was just having an end-of-life flash of the people he loved the most. “To Kevin Finnerty…and beyond!” Just for giggles a few years ago, Mrs. L and I watched the whole season because it was included with Amazon prime, gratis. I went to watch a bit of it the other day and whoa…I guess now I’d have to subscribe to their HBO channel or something. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/15 "2020-06-11T19:27:24Z")
[Everything David Chase has said about the ending.](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/01/the-sopranos-finale-david-chase-comments-is-tony-dead) Specifically with regard to the comments mentioned in the link in the OP: > [@](#): > > “You realize, of course, that you just referred to that as a death scene,” Seitz said after Chase was finished. After a long pause, Chase replied: “Fuck you guys.” The three shared a laugh. Eventually, **Chase added, “I changed my mind over time. I didn’t want to do a straight death scene. I** didn’t want you to feel like, ‘Oh, he’s meeting with Johnny Sack and he’s going to get killed.’ That’s the truth of it.” > > Seitz told the A.V. Club\* that he followed up with Chase to clarify his comment—and **Chase told him the “death scene” he was describing was not the Holsten’s scene, but an earlier idea he’d abandoned.** “I seriously doubt that’s going to dissuade anybody from believing whatever it is they already believe, though,” Seitz said. “If the last 12 years have taught us anything, it’s that, to misquote a famous Simon & Garfunkel song, a Sopranos fan will hear what he wants to hear and disregard the rest.” Bolding mine. Also from the article: > [@](#): > > As David Chase has said numerous times on the record, ‘Whether Tony Soprano is alive or dead is not the point.’ To continue to search for this answer is fruitless. The final scene of The Sopranos raises a spiritual question that has no right or wrong answer.” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/16 "2020-06-11T19:31:04Z")
As I saw it, the ending was just an admission of defeat by the showrunners who had no good way to resolve the character arcs. Tony is a terrible person and deserves to die. But if he dies, then the show becomes a kind of morality tale. The wages of sin are death. _The Sopranos_ isn’t that kind of show. Furthermore, it opens up a line of succession with Pauly as boss. That would leave the door open for a successor show, which is not acceptable if the show is to actually end. So Tony can’t die. On the other hand, Tony has just come out on top in a major war with another crime family. Then it becomes a morality tale where might makes right, and violence is OK if you’re doing it for your family. As I mentioned before I think _The Sopranos_ fails if it’s a morality series, so Tony cannot be a conquering hero either. So if we’re given a choice where Tony neither lives nor dies, we just get a scene that hints at how the rest of his life is likely to be. Tony will live his life looking over one shoulder, seeing himself as a success as long as he keeps his family well. Of course there will be a hit someday when Tony is happy and at the top of his game. He’ll never see the consequences of what he’s done; only his family will witness that. The scene seems to imply that Carmela and A.J. will get whacked as witnesses, and Meadow (the only innocent one) will witness the bloody aftermath. Anyway, that’s my take, thank you for coming to my TED talk. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/17 "2020-06-11T19:51:29Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > But after reading some of Chase’s other comments, I now think that Tony is Schrodinger’s mobster, in limbo like the the Russian in the Pine Barrens. We can decide his fate based on our own interpretations. That was my interpretation too. Basically they wanted to leave it wide open for everyone to interpret. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/18 "2020-06-11T19:57:27Z")
Schrodinger’s Hit. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/19 "2020-06-11T20:12:29Z")
Why did he say F\*\*\* you guys? Seems like he said that because he knew he said something he did not want to say. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458/20 "2020-06-11T20:26:26Z")
I just finished binging this series for the first time a couple of months ago. I already knew about the fade to black scene, so that didn’t surprise me. What did surprise me is people are debating this. To further analogize what others have said: Some people see a blue dress and others see a gold dress. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fate-of-tony-soprano/855458.md?page=2)