# Father kills "gay" toddler **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2005, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486 "2005-07-14T08:51:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/41 "2005-07-14T14:36:10Z")
I know that this is a fucked up thing to say, but it may be a good thing that the child died. The story indicates previous abuse, and there is no indication that it would have stopped. At least the child will not be suffering any longer, and who knows what sort of issues he would have suffered from as an adult growing up in the conditions he was in. Another issue I have with this - A 21 year old with a 3yo child. Granted, everyones mileage varies but 18 is probably too young for most people to have kids. Murder of a child, especially your own child, in these circumstances probably do warrant the death penalty (said as someone who isn’t a fan of the death penalty). ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/42 "2005-07-14T14:37:23Z")
Thanks, cricetus. Another thought is what do we, as a society, do when someone who’s falsely charged & convicted and then, while incarcerated, suffers the “prison retribution?” What’s the solution when the guy’s actually finally determined innocent? Yes, I know that’s not the case with the incident in the OP. I’m referring, as cricetus is, to the warped glee regarding said prison retribution. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/43 "2005-07-14T14:39:21Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > I’m not a fan of the whole hate crime thing, but 15 years just isn’t enough. I’d press for this to be charged as a hate crime to hopefully enhance the penalty. A lot. This is just a damn sad story. Eh, read the article… Paris, the father, was charged with capital murder. The wife will get max 15 years for neglect. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/44 "2005-07-14T14:41:37Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Decry female genital mutilation because it is an abominable act, assuredly, but is it actually misogyny? If so, a distressing number of older women in the countries where it’s performed are complicit in misogyny. Say rather that a culture that mandates the mutilation of female genitals has got some seriously twisted ideas about female sexuality and a stupid and vile rite of passage for its adolescent girls. No need to cry “misogyny” when there is already some specific evil to oppose. Surely you’re not saying that women can’t be misogynists. Because they can. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/45 "2005-07-14T14:42:16Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I have thoughts similar to Monty’s. It gets a little creepy to see, in every thread about some horrible crime, somebody cackling and rubbing his hands while they fantasize about rape and brutality in prison. OTOH, there’s that whole “wishing death on someone” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/46 "2005-07-14T14:43:01Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I think you’re what’s termed “a dumbass.” > > It’s not about “identifying” with a toddler. It’s about a brutal hate crime. A person was killed because of another person’s loathing of homosexuality. How old does the victim of an anti-gay attack have to be before it’s all right to decry the homophobia that motivated it? “Old enough to _be_ gay in any meaningful sense” will fly with me. A person who’ll beat a toddler to death in a misguided\* attempt to toughen him up doesn’t need homophobia, in the sense of antipathy towards adult gays, as a spur. And [Kirk]“double dumbass on you”[/Kirk]. I can get plenty outraged enough about a toddler getting beaten to death without having to hang anything else off it, still less my pet self-interest. (\* This word isn’t nearly strong enough; the reader can fill in their preferred alternative) ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/47 "2005-07-14T14:46:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Another thought is what do we, as a society, do when someone who’s falsely charged & convicted and then, while incarcerated, suffers the “prison retribution?” I think the solution is to prevent such crime from happening in the first place and take it very seriously when it does happen–investigate it and prosecute it. I’d also like to see the punitive aspect removed from prisons. The inmates have already lost their freedom, that’s punishment enough. Don’t permanently strip away all their pleasurable privileges too; give them something to work for, if they choose to. Instead of being places of punishment, I think prisons should be places of rehabilitation for those who can be rehabilitated and comfortable and humane warehouses for those who can’t be. Having compassion and empathy for criminals shouldn’t be a shameful thing, and it shouldn’t imply that compassion and sympathy aren’t also present for the victims. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/48 "2005-07-14T14:46:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Surely you’re not saying that women can’t be misogynists. Because they can. Of course, **Guinastasia** , but my point is that people - especially women - who genitally mutilate pubescent girls do so not because they hate women but because they have the idiotic notion that this is something that “ought” to be done to pubescent girls. Even, I understand, though this is sickening, that they are actually doing the poor girl a favour. :rolleyes: [sup]inf[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/49 "2005-07-14T14:49:49Z")
This is a sad but not unexpected end when poor trash teenagers breed. The dad was 21, which means he was 18 when the kid was born. The mother seems to have the same last name as the dad, which at least means they were married. The mom’s first name is ghetto. The quotes say it all: > [@](#): > > ``He really did what other fathers do - slap box,’’ > [@](#): > > The prosecution’s witnesses portrayed Ronnie Paris Jr. as a man who wanted more of his wife’s attention, who complained about not having enough sex since the child was around and who openly questioned whether the boy was his. yeah… get married and have babies with someone but you can’t be sure your babymama isn’t fucking on the side > [@](#): > > ``I just didn’t want my baby to get tooken away from me,’’ she said. You almost wonder whether we’d be better off with forced sterilization or government monitoring of at-risk kids. Not advocating this, just saying… ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/50 "2005-07-14T14:50:14Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I think you’re what’s termed “a dumbass.” > > It’s not about “identifying” with a toddler. It’s about a brutal hate crime. A person was killed because of another person’s loathing of homosexuality. How old does the victim of an anti-gay attack have to be before it’s all right to decry the homophobia that motivated it? I personally don’t give a rat’s ass for the “motivation”. He should be condemned for his actions, which are deplorable, and punished accordingly. I don’t care if he thought his child was gay, or possessed by demons, or the love child of his wife and Donald Duck, the **ACT** is what is wrong here. All of these groups, each claiming that their particular subset of the general population is somehow deserving of special treatment, continue to break this country down in to opposing factions rather then uniting us as a common people. If I shoot a guy, I should be prosecuted for the crime. Claiming that I shot him because he was black or gay or whatever, and that somehow makes what I did “worse”, is bullshit. The guy is just as dead, I’m a just as much a murderer, no matter what my reason for pulling the trigger. Send me to jail or fry me in the chair and be done with it. Demanding that I get special punishment because I’m a racist or a bigot or a homophobe does nothing but fuel the persecution complex of the group that thinks it’s being oppressed and build resentment amongst all of the other groups in society as they jockey for special treatment of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/51 "2005-07-14T14:53:35Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Having compassion and empathy for criminals shouldn’t be a shameful thing, and it shouldn’t imply that compassion and sympathy aren’t also present for the victims. Doh! “aren’t present” not “aren’t also present”; I deliberately had “empathy” for criminals and “sympathy” for victims. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/52 "2005-07-14T14:57:51Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Of course, **Guinastasia** , but my point is that people - especially women - who genitally mutilate pubescent girls do so not because they hate women but because they have the idiotic notion that this is something that “ought” to be done to pubescent girls. Even, I understand, though this is sickening, that they are actually doing the poor girl a favour. :rolleyes: [sup]inf[/sup] They do it because their ideas of what “ought to be done” are based in misogynistic notions that punish normal female sexuality. The attitude is one that women are base born creatures, and that only an evil whore would enjoy sex. Thus, we have to make sure that women aren’t permitted to enjoy sex, because that would be WRONG. IF that’s not misogyny, I don’t know what is. > [@Weirddave](#): > > I personally don’t give a rat’s ass for the “motivation”. He should be condemned for his actions, which are deplorable, and punished accordingly. I don’t care if he thought his child was gay, or possessed by demons, or the love child of his wife and Donald Duck, the **ACT** is what is wrong here. All of these groups, each claiming that their particular subset of the general population is somehow deserving of special treatment, continue to break this country down in to opposing factions rather then uniting us as a common people. If I shoot a guy, I should be prosecuted for the crime. Claiming that I shot him because he was black or gay or whatever, and that somehow makes what I did “worse”, is bullshit. The guy is just as dead, I’m a just as much a murderer, no matter what my reason for pulling the trigger. Send me to jail or fry me in the chair and be done with it. Demanding that I get special punishment because I’m a racist or a bigot or a homophobe does nothing but fuel the persecution complex of the group that thinks it’s being oppressed and build resentment amongst all of the other groups in society as they jockey for special treatment of their own. Bullshit. Establishing a motive, or reason for the act is an important part of our justice system. Besides, if we don’t figure out WHY people do the things they do, how the hell are we going to try and prevent it? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/53 "2005-07-14T14:58:38Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > This is a sad but not unexpected end when poor trash teenagers breed. Not all poor are trash, and not all trash are poor. A man stricken with poverty might have impeccable character, while a wealthy man might be a sleazeball. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/54 "2005-07-14T15:01:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Besides, if we don’t figure out WHY people do the things they do, how the hell are we going to try and prevent it? Aww, aren’t they just so damned _cute_ when they’re young? You can’t prevent human nature, sweety, all you can do is make the cost so high that some people will be detered in some situations. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/55 "2005-07-14T15:08:49Z")
Florida again. What’s up with Florida these days? This guy beat the kid on a regular basis apparently. Slap box my ass. He belittled him and finally killed him for not being tough enough. I wonder how tough he was at that age. There are no motives or reaqsonings that can justify this. Put him in General Population and let the mob have him. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/56 "2005-07-14T15:14:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Bullshit. Establishing a motive, or reason for the act is an important part of our justice system. Only insofar as it is needed to prove that the person being tried committed the crime. It should have nothing to do with sentencing except possibly in the deliberation of the judge whether to show mercy or put the hammer down. > [@](#): > > Besides, if we don’t figure out WHY people do the things they do, how the hell are we going to try and prevent it? Certainly, we should try and do that, but it is completely irrelevant to the issue of punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/57 "2005-07-14T15:26:50Z")
I think we have to acknowledge that pre-existing and prevailing homophobic attitudes do influence this kind of behavior. This is an extreme example but lesser examples abound in our society of parents trying to “straighten out” kids they think might be gay. The deprogramming camps, for example. We live in a society where calling homosexuality “immoral” is considered to be a normal and uncontroversial opinion. The President of the US has called homosexuality a “sin” and has expressed a desire to change the Constitution to prevent individual states from recognizing sex-sex relationships as legitimate. The majority of the US is still, for some reason, almost pathologically hostile to GLBT people. They justify it with scripture just like people used to justify slavery with scripture. The interpretations are just as twisted and self-serving (they don’t hate gay people because the Bible says so, the Bible says so because they hate gay people), and because it’s masked as a religious opinion it gets a free ride as some sort of legitimate moral opinion that should be taken seriously. I call bullshit on that. We need to start marginilizing homophobia for the sociological disease that it is - a disease no different from racism, no more rational and no less morally reprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/58 "2005-07-14T15:28:02Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Aww, aren’t they just so damned _cute_ when they’re young? You can’t prevent human nature, sweety, all you can do is make the cost so high that some people will be detered in some situations. Then why do we make any legal distinction between manslaughter and murder? Run someone over with your car accidentally or lay in wait on a rooftop with a scope, dead is still dead, but the whys and hows _do_ matter, they always have. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/59 "2005-07-14T15:30:14Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I have thoughts similar to Monty’s. It gets a little creepy to see, in every thread about some horrible crime, somebody cackling and rubbing his hands while they fantasize about rape and brutality in prison. The notion that abusers of children are singled out is, as one person recently pointed out, mostly rumors. Another poster said it “was the most disappointing thing” he’d ever read on SDMB. I do not think I care less for the victims of the crime because I don’t get any solace from contemplating the beating and rape a criminal will get in prison; nor do I think you are more moral or righteous for doing so. Abso-bloody-lutely. I’m **this** close to starting a thread on this nauseating, but ever present, attitude. You either believe in a justice system or revenge dispensed by self-appointed criminal vigilantes. Rape and beatings have no place in the former; by anyone, on anyone. Those who appear gleefully taken by the idea aren’t voicing righteous outrage, they’re expressing approval of illegal and immoral violations of human rights. Personally I find that no less disgusting than the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486/60 "2005-07-14T15:32:20Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > “Old enough to _be_ gay in any meaningful sense” will fly with me. A person who’ll beat a toddler to death in a misguided\* attempt to toughen him up doesn’t need homophobia, in the sense of antipathy towards adult gays, as a spur. Would he have tried to box with his toddler without the fear that the child might grow up to be gay? Does he “need homophobia…as a spur”? Unknown. In this case, however, homophobia _was_ the spur and your continued insistence that it’s somehow unimportant is baffling. > [@Malacandra](#): > > pet self-interest. Your talent for coming off like more and more of an utter shit in each successive post is truly stunning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-kills-gay-toddler/312486.md?page=4)