# Father of 9/11 victim fights to have "Murdered by Muslim Terrorists" inscribed on son's memorial **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414 "2009-11-05T12:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/1 "2009-11-05T12:27:18Z")
> **[Examiner is back - Examiner.com](https://examiner.com)** > > At Examiner.com™ we help you excel personal finance, boost income, invest wisely, travel smart, reach financial freedom faster, and enjoy life on a budget. > [@](#): > > Peter Gadiel lives in Kent, CT, a bedroom community outside New York City. Peter lost his son James on 9/11. His son worked for the investment house Cantor Fitzgerald. His office was on the 103rd floor of the North Tower. It was his first job out of college. He was 23. > > Now it’s eight years later and the acting mayor of Kent, CT (known as First Selectman) tells the father of a planned memorial. They felt it right to honor a hometown boy who died that day and planned to hang a plaque in the town hall. > > They asked the father to compose a text for the plaque. Therein lies the controversy. Mister Gadiel wrote: > > “James Gadiel (1978-2001), a gentleman and a gentle man, murdered by Muslim terrorists.” > > You can guess what happened next. > > The mayor said that language was too harsh and not in keeping with the town’s image. The council voted against erecting the plaque if the father insisted on the language. The father went public and the New York metropolitan area is buzzing. > > The father has taken a stand because he believes there has been a determined effort to “suppress” the identity of the terrorists who were, in fact, Muslim terrorists. Conservative talk show hosts have taken up his cause and accuse the town fathers of being politically correct namby pambies. I don’t have a problem with it; the text for the plaque seems accurate. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/2 "2009-11-05T12:43:08Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I don’t have a problem with it; the text for the plaque seems accurate. Would you have a problem with a relative of a victim of the Oklahoma city bombing to erect a plaque saying “murdered by a christian terrorist” ? > **[Timothy McVeigh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh)** > > Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was an American domestic terrorist who masterminded and perpetrated the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995. The bombing itself killed 167 or 168 people (including 19 children), injured 684 people, and destroyed one-third of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. A rescue worker was killed after the bombing when debris struck her head, bringing the total to 168–169 killed. It remains the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in A Gulf... ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/3 "2009-11-05T12:43:30Z")
The claim “The father has taken a stand because he believes there has been a determined effort to “suppress” the identity of the terrorists who were, in fact, Muslim terrorists.” seems pretty weak. In anycase, if such a determined effort exists, it certainly isn’t having much success. Memorials usually try to have a sense of decorum, I’m not aware of any Perl Harbor memorial that memorializes the victims has “blown up by the sneaky Japanese”, though that’s certainly true, as well. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/4 "2009-11-05T12:46:36Z")
“Fucked up by our military and intelligence agencies” would be a more apt inscription. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/5 "2009-11-05T13:02:04Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Would you have a problem with a relative of a victim of the Oklahoma city bombing to erect a plaque saying “murdered by a christian terrorist” ? Yes, because (unlike Muslims) Christians represent a tiny fraction of the modern-day terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/6 "2009-11-05T13:03:52Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Would you have a problem with a relative of a victim of the Oklahoma city bombing to erect a plaque saying “murdered by a christian terrorist” ? This tired comparison that gets trotted out every time is inaccurate. For it to be equivalent, the Oklahoma plaque would have to say “murdered by an anti-government terrorist.” What McVeigh did had nothing to do with being a Christian. The 9/11 terrorist actions were directly related to their Muslim faith. And I emphasize “their” because it is only the interpretation of a small minority of Muslims. Having said that, I think the city is allowed to set the tone it wants in its memorial and therefore can prohibit the suggested wording. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/7 "2009-11-05T13:09:16Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Would you have a problem with a relative of a victim of the Oklahoma city bombing to erect a plaque saying “murdered by a christian terrorist” ? > > [Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh) From your link - > [@](#): > > The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic So your plaque would have to say “Murdered by an agnostic terrorist, for whom Science was his religion”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/8 "2009-11-05T13:21:36Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Yes, because (unlike Muslims) Christians represent a tiny fraction of terrorists. Interesting that. The plaque would be no less accurate. But you read the plaque as “muslim terrorist” being one word. Therein lies the issue. You are reading the plaque as a (correct in your opinion) aspersion cast on Muslims, whilst defending the same slant being cast on Christians. And about now it becomes emotive. Everyone needs to step back. Historically it is hardly true that Christians represent the tiny fraction of terrorists. The IRA and Loyalists killed thousands over the decades. In Ireland the number of plaques that could read “Killed by a Catholic terrorist” or “Killed by a Protestant terrorist” well exceeds the number that died in 9/11. It is never possible to get this sort of thing right. Personally I don’t think it ever does the deceased any sort of honour to be tagged with residual hatred. The mooted plaque is in one reading perfectly accurate. But if a possible plaque for the Oklahoma victims can’t be considered as equally accurate, it is clear that there is a subtext to the meaning that goes beyond pure accuracy. There is a hidden text which wishes to taint all Muslims as complicit in the act. And that is hardly acceptable. Unsurprising, but unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/9 "2009-11-05T13:29:05Z")
If we could show it was accurate, could we also put other relevant things on the plaque? Like, “James Gadiel (1978-2001), a gentleman and a gentle man, who thought his father was a jerk, murdered by Muslim terrorists.” Accuracy in fact isn’t the test of a decent memorial. And I think it is only in the mind of crypto-racists that people don’t know damn well who perpetrated 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/10 "2009-11-05T13:50:23Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > This tired comparison that gets trotted out every time is inaccurate. For it to be equivalent, the Oklahoma plaque would have to say “murdered by an anti-government terrorist.” What McVeigh did had nothing to do with being a Christian. . None of us can ever know the reasons why Timothy McVeigh or the 9/11 plotters did what they did, but “killed by a christian terrorist” and “killed my a muslim terrorist” is exactly as accurate in both cases. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/11 "2009-11-05T13:55:50Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Interesting that. The plaque would be no less accurate. But you read the plaque as “muslim terrorist” being one word. Therein lies the issue. You are reading the plaque as a (correct in your opinion) aspersion cast on Muslims, whilst defending the same slant being cast on Christians. And about now it becomes emotive. > > Everyone needs to step back. Historically it is hardly true that Christians represent the tiny fraction of terrorists. The IRA and Loyalists killed thousands over the decades. In Ireland the number of plaques that could read “Killed by a Catholic terrorist” or “Killed by a Protestant terrorist” well exceeds the number that died in 9/11. Quite right. If the plaque read Al Qaeda terrorists, well there you would be precise and not unduly cast aspersion on an entire religion. > [@](#): > > Personally I don’t think it ever does the deceased any sort of honour to be tagged with residual hatred. Agreed, in resolving the Troubles, getting away from the labelling was an important part of the effort. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Accuracy in fact isn’t the test of a decent memorial. > > And I think it is only in the mind of crypto-racists that people don’t know damn well who perpetrated 9/11. Also right. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/12 "2009-11-05T13:57:41Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Would you have a problem with a relative of a victim of the Oklahoma city bombing to erect a plaque saying “murdered by a christian terrorist” ? > > [Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh) > [@coremelt](#): > > None of us can ever know the reasons why Timothy McVeigh or the 9/11 plotters did what they did, but “killed by a christian terrorist” and “killed my a muslim terrorist” is exactly as accurate in both cases. Yeah, did you read the link you posted at all? It seems clear that McVeigh, while raised a Christian, did not identify as a Christian as an adult. How is “exactly as accurate” to call McVeigh a Christian? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/13 "2009-11-05T14:01:19Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > The IRA and Loyalists killed thousands over the decades. In Ireland the number of plaques that could read “Killed by a Catholic terrorist” or “Killed by a Protestant terrorist” well exceeds the number that died in 9/11. Now in this case, it’s perfectly accurate. Not only were the IRA Catholic, but their Catholicism was what in large part led to their actions. So IRA victims could easily be characterized as victims of Catholic terrorists; Loyalist victims were indeed victims of Protestant terrorists, and the whole mess of 'em were victims of Christian terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/14 "2009-11-05T14:05:26Z")
I don’t see a problem with the town setting limitations on what can be written on a memorial they are thinking about putting in place. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/15 "2009-11-05T14:06:45Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > The 9/11 terrorist actions were directly related to their Muslim faith. Reasons given by Osama bin Laden for 9/11: > **[Removed: document](https://www.theguardian.com/info/2023/nov/15/removed-document)** > **[MEMRI TV](https://www.memri.org/tv)** > > MEMRI's archive of Middle East reports includes translations, Special Dispatches, and Inquiry and Analysis papers from and about media and events in the region on a wide range of topics, from 1998 to the present. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/16 "2009-11-05T14:07:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yeah, did you read the link you posted at all? It seems clear that McVeigh, while raised a Christian, did not identify as a Christian as an adult. How is “exactly as accurate” to call McVeigh a Christian? They are both inaccurate labels… thats the point. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/17 "2009-11-05T14:09:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yeah, did you read the link you posted at all? It seems clear that McVeigh, while raised a Christian, did not identify as a Christian as an adult. How is “exactly as accurate” to call McVeigh a Christian? [Eric Robert Rudolph](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Robert_Rudolph) would probably be a better example of a domestic “Christian Terrorist”, as he was both a Chrisitian and apparently motiviated by his relgion to blow people up. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/18 "2009-11-05T14:10:13Z")
Memorials are probably best served calling attention to the worth of the life lost as opposed to being a warning about perceived dangers. Stating that his son was a gentleman and a gentle man accomplishes this. Casting aspersions about the motivation behind his son’s murderers does not. I suppose that if the father wishes he can make whatever statement he’d like to within the confines of a private memorial, like on his son’s or his own tombstone. But in the public arena such a display of residual hatred is of questionable accuracy and lends an inappropriate air, forever compromising the solemn mood for all who would visit. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/19 "2009-11-05T14:15:52Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Memorials are probably best served calling attention to the worth of the life lost as opposed to being a warning about perceived dangers. Stating that his son was a gentleman and a gentle man accomplishes this. Casting aspersions about the motivation behind his son’s murderers does not. > > I suppose that if the father wishes he can make whatever statement he’d like to within the confines of a private memorial, like on his son’s or his own tombstone. But in the public arena such a display of residual hatred is of questionable accuracy and lends an inappropriate air, forever compromising the solemn mood for all who would visit. I agree with this. (If you go down this road, you can describe thousands of IRA victims as ‘killed by Christian terrorists, funded by American money’.) ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414/20 "2009-11-05T14:17:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now in this case, it’s perfectly accurate. Not only were the IRA Catholic, but their Catholicism was what in large part led to their actions. So IRA victims could easily be characterized as victims of Catholic terrorists; Loyalist victims were indeed victims of Protestant terrorists, and the whole mess of 'em were victims of Christian terrorists. Republicanism and precieved oppression by a imperialist power led to their actions, it had nothing whatsoever to do with religion. A lot of IRA men where lefty atheists, in fact the few(Acquaintances/friends of my father) I know are all lefty non-believers. Catholic and Protestant are just handy pointers to which side the person most likely falls on really. The Loyalist groups were mostly acting as a reaction to Republican acts. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/father-of-9-11-victim-fights-to-have-murdered-by-muslim-terrorists-inscribed-on-sons-memorial/516414.md?page=2)