# Fathers of daughters: Do you think all men are scum till proven otherwise? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798 "2009-01-30T23:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/261 "2009-02-04T16:13:48Z")
What is the point, **Shodan** , of the over-firm handshake? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/262 "2009-02-04T16:19:02Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > What is the point, **Shodan** , of the over-firm handshake? I was going to suggest that you actually read my posts, but you would simply interpret everything I say as a death threat against males, so… _:shrugs:_ Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/263 "2009-02-04T16:25:14Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > …and, as we’ve already established, it’s all about your determination to be offended. Once again, where were you in all the threads where there were dead baby jokes? Where were you in all the RO threads where people made jokes about sharing a cell with Bubba? > You know what? Go ahead and wallow in being offended. Besot yourself with it. You apparently enjoy it and it does me no harm. > For my part, I see no pressing reason to give any weight whatsoever to parenting advice from childless offenderatti. Especially childless offenderatti whose sole claim to parenting knowledge is that\_apparently by their own admission\_they had parents who did a poor job. Seeing it done wrong doesn’t mean you know how to do it right. You know what? I wasn’t offended by the jokes, I found the turn from discussing a weird throwback (father threatening violence to his fathers dates) to wallowing in the stereotype. It changed the whole vibe of the the thread and I understand why people might take exception to that. Just like if a thread on overreactions to gender issues (boys playing with dolls) descended into guys stating how they weren’t going to raise no fucking faggots might be a little offputting to gay people. Even if they were just jokes, but especially if they jokes sounded like they might be serious. > [@Shodan](#): > > So you believe I should run away from meeting my daughter’s boyfriend? > I’ll ask the same question I asked before - are you really this stupid? > > Seriously - did this sound like it made sense when you read it over? > > I don’t mind it so much coming from people like **Strassia** and **cowgirl** , who cannot seem to be bothered to read for comprehension. And I assume most of the rest of you are showing off how liberated and modern you are, and that you wouldn’t care if your daughter had sex on the living room floor with a German Shepherd as long as he used a condom, but - > > The other ones are the ones I don’t understand. Either y’all seem grimly determined not to have any sense of humor at all, or you look at a post where a father says he makes it a point of meeting his daughter’s boyfriends and see some scenario where I attack people at random. > > You people are weird. > > All these posts about how fucked up relationships are. Either they haven’t got any children, or they can’t get along with their fathers, or their kids are on Prozac or something, while my daughter gets straight A’s, is active in her church, has never even gotten so much as a traffic ticket, and is universally popular and happy. > > And I am supposed to take advice on how to treat her from y’all. > > I think there is a quotation about specks and logs and eyes here somewhere. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t know you or your daughter, and I am making no judgments on how you interact with her. I just want know what you think you are accomplishing by using physical dominance techniques on her dates? Do you think it is helpful if they are physically afraid of you? What is the point of the goddamn handshake? You have been strawmaning me for at least two pages by ignoring the important question. So just answer this: **What is the point of the extra firm handshake?** If you think you answered this, please point out the post. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/264 "2009-02-04T16:37:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you believe I should run away from meeting my daughter’s boyfriend? No, you should meet him. But really, what the hell do you expect to accomplish by threatening the boy who apparently likes your daughter a lot and wants her to have good times with him (sex or not)? If you threaten someone with your posturing, it’ll be the guys who probably were not planning on doing anything to your daughter. Most guys will ignore you and just go as far as your daughter lets them, taking you completely out of the equation. The guys “truly evil” guys, the guys who could harm your girl… They’re not going to think it twice because of your posturing. So really, why you do it? You’re making _yourself_ feel better, but you’re not helping your daughter or doing anything to really protect her. > [@](#): > > The other ones are the ones I don’t understand. Either y’all seem grimly determined not to have any sense of humor at all, or you look at a post where a father says he makes it a point of meeting his daughter’s boyfriends and see some scenario where I attack people at random. But I don’t see you just meeting the boyfriends and doing polite conversation. That’s not what you’re writing about. You’re writing about making veiled threats and mentioning your weight lifting and black belt. And like someone else said, exactly how can that be mentioned in completely casual, fluffy conversation? Or do you think the teenage boys are going to be idiots and miss your threat? > [@](#): > > You people are weird. Yes, I am, I cannot deny it. The relationship with my dad, though, is not. There is not one man in the world I love more than him (so far). He is my rock, and when I think about him, I think about the things I (don’t) want in a long-term partner. > [@](#): > > All these posts about how fucked up relationships are. Either they haven’t got any children, or they can’t get along with their fathers, or their kids are on Prozac or something, while my daughter gets straight A’s, is active in her church, has never even gotten so much as a traffic ticket, and is universally popular and happy. I don’t have kids, but I get along with my father. And the older I get, the more I appreciate him (faults and all). I was a straight A student in HS, never got a traffic ticket until I was past undergrad. In fact, never even had the car in HS because my dad didn’t trust me with it (hah, I drive better than him now). > [@](#): > > And I am supposed to take advice on how to treat her from y’all. > > Regards, > Shodan Well, I’m telling you that what you’re doing is not as effective as you probably think it is. It doesn’t help, it probably doesn’t hurt, but if it does, it is far worse than you think it will. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/265 "2009-02-04T16:38:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I was going to suggest that you actually read my posts, but you would simply interpret everything I say as a death threat against males, so… > > _:shrugs:_ > > Regards, > Shodan Shrugging is definitely the right response, because there is no other response that doesn’t bear out exactly what **catsix** has been saying. You might try **Scumpup** ’s tactic and backpedal to some permission scenario, like protecting her from violence. After all, it does happen and if it happened to your daughter in front of you, no one could possibly criticize you for doing what posters in this thread (and other threads) seem to enjoy fantasizing about. Or you could stick to that “if he makes her cry” line of shit. Were you ever a young man? Did you date? Do you not remember meeting the ex-lover or aspirational friend who would drink a little too much and say “If you ever make her cry, man, I’ll fuck you up!” Did any of them ever do it, or even try? Did you ever think they would, or did they just seem pathetic and kind of comical? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/266 "2009-02-04T16:44:48Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Shrugging is definitely the right response, because there is no other response that doesn’t bear out exactly what **catsix** has been saying. You might try **Scumpup** ’s tactic and backpedal to some permission scenario, like protecting her from violence. After all, it does happen and if it happened to your daughter in front of you, no one could possibly criticize you for doing what posters in this thread (and other threads) seem to enjoy fantasizing about. Another jack-ass who is going to willfully and insistently confuse hyperbole with reality heard from. I would have been backpedalling if this > [@](#): > > I figure on making friends with any boy who comes acourting for my daughter. He’ll be so awestruck by my coolness than he’ll want to do anything to please me. > When he arrives, I’ll be in the back yard (stripped to the waist) practicing my kindjahl techniques on a pig carcass hung from my magnolia tree. > While I towel off, he can thread bits of pork onto the skewers for shashlik…as guest of honor he gets the kidneys and testicles. > After we eat, we can sit down and discuss what their plans are for the rest of the evening. I’m a busy man, so I will probably be multitasking and be stripping/cleaning one of my .45’s during this conversation. My wife is a busy woman too, and if her Kalashnikov needs cleaning, so be it. > Next, I will introduce my daughter’s uncle Andrei. He’s a likeable, fun guy. One of the really fun things about him is guessing whether he is or isn’t mafia. > Finally, I will set the curfew for the evening and make clear that should the curfew be violated there will be repercussions. In future dates, should there be any, our young swain would be required to wear something akin to a collar bomb. Only smaller. And lower. had been posted as a literally truthful description of my intentions. If I may borrow **Shodan’s** phrase, are you really this stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/267 "2009-02-04T16:47:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Correct - eye contact is good. And a handshake that is just a little more firm than necessary. > > The major part of it is just to show that I’m there. And paying attention. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@Shodan](#): > > Am I going to make threats to him? No, of course not. Is one of the messages to be communicated that she has a large male who is a weightlifter and a black belt keeping a careful eye out for her well-being? _Of course it is._ > > Regards, > Shodan Just to reiterate, you have claimed that this isn’t about the threat of physical violence. So what is it about? How is being a black belt and weight lifter with a strong grip going to protect your daughter from anything when you are not standing there? I have never, and will never, say you should not support your daughter and be there for here if something happens. But if you are not going to be an avenging angel and go out looking to put some cad in the hospital or grave, where does the weight lifting and karate come in? Jonathan On preview, I agree with **KarlGrenze** , whatever effect this has on your daughter, and I agree that there may not be any in your case, this type of crap is about you and how you feel and not her. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/268 "2009-02-04T17:03:39Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > What is the point, **Shodan** , of the over-firm handshake? I can’t speak for **Shodan** but that’s how I was taught to shake hands with a man whom I would have a potential relationship with. When I shake another mans hand I \*expect \* him to have a firm handshake so when greeting him in this manner I make sure my grip is a shade more firm than if I was meeting another man in a setting where I wouldn’t expect to see him again. Eye contact is very important as well. If you can’t look another man in the eye, or anyone else for that matter, chances are you will not be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/269 "2009-02-04T17:07:08Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Well, I’m telling you that what you’re doing is not as effective as you probably think it is. It doesn’t help, it probably doesn’t hurt, but if it does, it is far worse than you think it will. This is pretty much what I mentioned. You don’t have children. And you are telling me that what I am doing in raising my daughter is not helping. Even though, so far, my daughter is turning out nearly as well as the most doting parent could wish. You have never met her. You have never met me. You have no experience in child-raising. And the results to date of **my** involved approach to child-raising are an overwhelming success (insofar as I am responsible for my daughter’s successes). **Strassia** , **cowgirl** , and **catsix** don’t have children. **Cartooniverse** ’s children don’t date. Yet they are the ones warning me of all the dire consequences of not taking their hysterical pretensions seriously. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t really give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/270 "2009-02-04T17:11:23Z")
> [@](#): > > **Omegaman** said: > I can’t speak for Shodan but that’s how I was taught to shake hands with a man whom I would have a potential relationship with. Most people know the importance of a firm handshake. That’s not what **Shodan** said. He said more firm than necessary. > [@](#): > > **Shodan** said: > You have never met her. You have never met me. You have no experience in child-raising. And the results to date of my involved approach to child-raising are an overwhelming success (insofar as I am responsible for my daughter’s successes). We have only your statements that you know everything that’s going on in her life. Nobody here has heard her opinion, straight from her. We don’t know that she actually appreciates your intimidation tactics, or if she just uncomfortably laughs at them. You don’t even know that. Is she planning to go away to college? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/271 "2009-02-04T17:13:49Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Another jack-ass who is going to willfully and insistently confuse hyperbole with reality heard from. Huh. Funny, I never said “reality,” nor did I imply that anything posted here was reality. In fact, I believe I called it “fantasy.” Ah, well, another jackass who can’t read. > [@](#): > > I would have been backpedalling if this > had been posted as a literally truthful description of my intentions. You were backpedalling, and it was never asserted to be a “truthful description” of your intentions. > [@](#): > > If I may borrow **Shodan’s** phrase, are you really this stupid? You may, but I suggest you actually read the posts you’re responding to before you trot it out. Otherwise, the effect is a little more entertaining than I believe you intended. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/272 "2009-02-04T17:17:11Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > I can’t speak for **Shodan** but that’s how I was taught to shake hands with a man whom I would have a potential relationship with. When I shake another mans hand I \*expect \* him to have a firm handshake so when greeting him in this manner I make sure my grip is a shade more firm than if I was meeting another man in a setting where I wouldn’t expect to see him again. > > Eye contact is very important as well. If you can’t look another man in the eye, or anyone else for that matter, chances are you will not be trusted. Read the quote. If he is simply giving a normal firm handshake, it would not have caused comment. What he seems to be saying is that not only do the potential dates know that he has a black belt and is a weightlifter, but he gives them a handshake that is “a little more firm than necessary”. He has stated that he is letting them know that someone who can kick their asses is watching them. But he is also states that it doesn’t matter whether or not he can kick their asses. So, if it doesn’t matter that he can kick their asses, why make of point of letting them know it? It’s not respect, by his own admission it is not because he thinks it is the only thing keeping them from harming his daughter, it’s establishing dominance. Which is what I, and others, find disturbing. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/273 "2009-02-04T17:25:28Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > We have only your statements that you know everything that’s going on in her life. Nobody here has heard her opinion, straight from her. We don’t know that she actually appreciates your intimidation tactics, or if she just uncomfortably laughs at them. That is exactly my point. You don’t know anything whatever about her. You don’t know anything about the specific case of my daughter, and you don’t know anything about the general experience of child-rearing. And yet, there you are, shooting off your mouth about things you know nothing about, and criticizing someone’s actions, who has extensive experience in both the specific and general cases. And what I am doing to date is working out quite well. So I do know a great deal, and you know nothing whatever. But I am supposed to take advice from you. Put it this way - you have a project at work. I have no experience in engineering of any sort, know nothing about the details of the proposal, and have never worked in the field. You, on the other hand, are just coming off a project where you led a team that was entirely successful. How would it be if I told you how to run the project? Does that sound like a good idea to you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/274 "2009-02-04T17:33:29Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > Sorry, I was addressing someone else and I didn’t see your post. > > As a blanket statement, no, in general, I don’t think a dad has any legitimate interest in his daughter’s sex life. (Note I distinguish sex from dating - sex has to do with vaginas, dating has to do with relationships, and I think it’s quite reasonable for dads to take an interest in their daughters’ relationships, whether dating or otherwise.) Obviously there are exceptions, such as in cases of abuse/exploitation/harassment etc. But in my own experience, I have never heard of a father doing more good than harm by making his daughter’s vagina any of his business (and indeed, a lot of harm can come of it, usually to the detriment of the father-daughter relationship). > > If I heard any counter-examples, my position might be different. But in 32 years I have never seen any. From my POV, vaginas are kinda implicit under the idea of “relationships” as in any intrapersonal ones. I’d agree that explicitly monitoring vaginas outside of the context of monitoring relationships can be kinda creepy. I mean, unless my hypothetical daughter’s vagina is randomly running around having sex independent of the rest of her, I still want to meet the guy the penis is attached to and it has to be home by curfew with the rest of her. So no, in this situation, I think my original paragraph stands–I’m all for implicit vagina monitoring in the context of relationship monitoring (“You’re too young to be alone with boys/date that 35 yr old/stay out past midnight.”) but stuff like purity balls where it’s explicitly about the vagina really skeeve me out. (“Whatever you want, honey, as long as your hymen’s intact at the end of it.”) ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/275 "2009-02-04T17:34:37Z")
Can I just say vagina one more time, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/276 "2009-02-04T17:41:20Z")
I was going to suggest that “Your Daughter’s Vagina” would be a fine band name. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/277 "2009-02-04T17:43:34Z")
If we’re shooting for band names out of this, I’m just pissed off that no one latched onto “Unbridaled Vagina Hoarding.” ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/278 "2009-02-04T17:50:58Z")
**Shodan** (and btw sorry for misspelling your name earlier), I am not judging either your relationship or your daughter. I don’t know either. I am a father, but more importantly I am human being. I am addressing only the way you have presented your interactions with her dates on this message board. To use your analogy, you may not be qualified to second guess her on many issues, but if she says on this board, that she can save some money by using cast iron fittings on sea pump, I wouldn’t think you presumptuous in questioning that. You could be wrong if you assume rust will be a problem, and I could be wrong that you attempting to physically intimidate her dates is more for your ego than her protection, but you have never bothered to tell me why that is. I am not questioning the results of your parenting, because I have no evidence either way. What I am doing is saying that I think it is a mistake to model behavior that at best reinforces the image that women need a strong man to protect them from the world, and at worst makes them feel that they are simply territory for the males to mark. On a scale of 1 to 10 of damage you can do to your children (and none of us are so perfect that we never do anything wrong WRT our children) I would score what you have described as no more than a 2. Guys who bring out the guns and make overt threats might score a 4, and fathers who constantly talk about it constantly, letting their daughters know that their virginity is their most important asset and the fathers primary responsibility, well those guys might score a 7 or 8. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/279 "2009-02-04T18:24:29Z")
My daughter brought her new boyfriend to meet me today. John or Joey or something. Typical young punk—tried to put on a brave face, but I had him quivering. Met him with a cracking handshake that should’ve put him in a cast, but he took it well. Strong kid, for being so skinny. Wiry, as they say. It was easy to see why my daughter liked him. Looked a bit like a young Mickey Rourke, before his face got bashed in. Gotta lose the chin pubes, though—but we’ll get to that eventually. We sat in the living room and I stared him down, never blinking. His eyes fluttered everywhere but mine. My daughter’s boyfriend. The sexual tension in the room was palpable. Thankfully, it broke the moment my daughter entered the room. As they left, I told Jack or Jeff I hoped to see him again soon, and I meant it. _Secret Diaries of Shodan_ Cleis Press; 2008 edition ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/280 "2009-02-04T18:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > **Shodan** said: > That is exactly my point. You don’t know anything whatever about her. You don’t know anything about the specific case of my daughter, and you don’t know anything about the general experience of child-rearing. And yet, there you are, shooting off your mouth about things you know nothing about, and criticizing someone’s actions, who has extensive experience in both the specific and general cases. And what I am doing to date is working out quite well. According to you. If you had asked my dad fifteen years ago whether he was doing it right and whether we had a good relationship, I bet he would’ve answered ‘yes’ to both of those. He didn’t know any different. So pardon me if I don’t immediately take your word for it that your daughter just loves it when you squeeze her date’s hand so hard that it hurts him, but until I hear it from her, I’m going to be skeptical that she not only likes your behavior towards her dates, but actually tells you everything that’s going on in her life. > [@](#): > > So I do know a great deal, and you know nothing whatever. But I am supposed to take advice from you. You know absolutely nothing about being a seventeen year-old girl. > [@](#): > > Put it this way - you have a project at work. I have no experience in engineering of any sort, know nothing about the details of the proposal, and have never worked in the field. You, on the other hand, are just coming off a project where you led a team that was entirely successful. If you told me that it’s not a good idea to berate my project team, or to spend all my time making sure they know how much better I am than they are, then you’d be right, and you wouldn’t have to know a damn thing about engineering. Let’s say you don’t know anything at all about rocket design, but you do know something about rubber. If I told you that I had every intention of using rubber that’s known to deteriorate and fail catastrophically at low temperatures on the outside window seals of the Orion crew module on the Ares rocket, would you be right? Do you really need to know anything about aerospace engineering to tell me that, or do you just base it on what you know about rubber? > [@](#): > > **Strassia** said: > Guys who bring out the guns and make overt threats might score a 4, and fathers who constantly talk about it constantly, letting their daughters know that their virginity is their most important asset and the fathers primary responsibility, well those guys might score a 7 or 8. And the kind who make sure that their daughter’s first kiss is at her wedding to the husband they chaperoned all her dates with during the courtship are a solid 10. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798.md?page=15)