# Fathers of daughters: Do you think all men are scum till proven otherwise? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798 "2009-01-30T23:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/301 "2009-02-04T20:27:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > **Strassia** , **cowgirl** , and **catsix** don’t have children. **Cartooniverse** ’s children don’t date. Yet they are the ones warning me of all the dire consequences of not taking their hysterical pretensions seriously. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t really give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. > > Regards, > Shodan Sher ya do. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t be replying as you are. C’mon. At least own that. Hysterical pretentions? Dude, I am not the one who cannot stop repeating the black belt and weight lifting stuff. I’m not hysterical. Nor will I be when the daughter or son date. I’ll be interested, and caring, and supportive of their choices. I’ll try to discern if they’re making dangerous choices and ask them to keep an eye out on their hearts, minds and bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/302 "2009-02-04T20:29:09Z")
So you’re saying you would kill them out of hand? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/303 "2009-02-04T20:33:12Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > And finally, I am not only tickled by the whole **Shodan** thing, but at \*\*catsix \*\*being decried for being a feminist here in this thread. From the ridiculous to the sublime–this thread has it all. **catsix** is probably the most feminist person I know of on the SDMB, even if she would prefer not to be called one, and doesn’t care to associate herself with people who do. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/304 "2009-02-04T20:37:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **Strassia** said: > (b) how the hell would I know that? This is a message board. For all I know you are Larry the Cable guy or the demented ex-marine I know who is trying to find a legal chastity belt. **Scumpup** always struck me as a good guy, the kind who it was rather fun to have some German food and German beer with at the Penn Brewery. He seemed like he was not the kind of guy who would in any way have a hangup about female purity. He says that he’s joking, and obviously he’s not going to make any exploding cock rings or force anyone to eat testicles. It just seems like there’s some kernel of truth in there about the whole thing that I never would have previously guessed. I guess I had figured **Scumpup** to be the kind who would meet his daughter’s date and get to know the guy and generally be laid back about it since when I met him, he was that laid back guy. I’m not just trying to be a bitch, either, by suggesting that it might be worth giving up those jokes (even though he obviously finds them funny) on the chance that his daughter might not and that it could cause some kind of damage to their relationship in the years to come. She’s only 8 years old now, so it’s not like I’m saying that he should just let her run wild at her current age, or that he tells her jokes about dynamite cock rings now, either. I thought he might be open to at least hearing the point of view of someone who once was the recipient of those jokes, and maybe consider their potential impact. Not that he should call me for instructions on how to be a parent, just consider this as some of the available information out there. Apparently I was wrong about that. But maybe a seed is planted and he will have this in the back of his mind if he does crack that joke five, six, seven or eight years in the future. > [@](#): > > **Sarahfeena** said: > catsix is probably the most feminist person I know of on the SDMB, even if she would prefer not to be called one, and doesn’t care to associate herself with people who do. Feminists are people who think that being female is a handicap, that they need help to get into the upper echelons of anywhere, and whine about the door being locked when they haven’t even tried to open it. That’s not me. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/305 "2009-02-04T20:38:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is pretty much what I mentioned. You don’t have children. And you are telling me that what I am doing in raising my daughter is not helping. > > Even though, so far, my daughter is turning out nearly as well as the most doting parent could wish. > > You have never met her. You have never met me. You have no experience in child-raising. And the results to date of **my** involved approach to child-raising are an overwhelming success (insofar as I am responsible for my daughter’s successes). > > **Strassia** , **cowgirl** , and **catsix** don’t have children. **Cartooniverse** ’s children don’t date. Yet they are the ones warning me of all the dire consequences of not taking their hysterical pretensions seriously. You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t really give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. > > Regards, > Shodan I was a teenage female not so long ago, something you have to admit you were not and will never be. And I’m telling you what I tell you coming from a different POV that you are. I took offense in you saying that since I’m against what you’re saying you do, I love my father less, I don’t have respect for him, I don’t love him. Nothing is farthest from the truth. You saying that pissed me off, rightly. You lumped all the females that disagreed with your view in that category. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/306 "2009-02-04T20:44:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you’re saying you would kill them out of hand? > > Regards, > Shodan It’s a little bit late in the game to attempt to insert humor. Nowhere in my post did I state, intimate or imply a threat to anyone. To infer otherwise is a desperate act of distraction by someone who simply is incapable of defending the posture taken throughout this thread. Everyone reading my posts knows what I am saying. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/307 "2009-02-04T20:46:46Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Feminists are people who think that being female is a handicap, that they need help to get into the upper echelons of anywhere, and whine about the door being locked when they haven’t even tried to open it. > > That’s not me. Yes, I know. I believe your attitude embodies the TRUE spirit of feminism…that women can do anything they want and shouldn’t be treated any differently on account of their sex. That was what my mother taught me feminism is about, and I don’t care for anyone trying to turn it into a cry of victimhood. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/308 "2009-02-04T20:47:07Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > IIf you are going around applying the ol’ knucklecrusher to all and sundry, well that would make you an asshole. Do you also make sure they know that you lift weights and have a black belt? Is that part of how you show respect? No? Well, then maybe we are talking about different things here. > > Jonathan Well to be sure we are talking about different things. It is about dealing with others face to face, something I for one at least, aren’t qualified to relate to you with words alone. Oh, and you were right about one thing. You can be sure I’m an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/309 "2009-02-04T20:55:13Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Yes, I know. I believe your attitude embodies the TRUE spirit of feminism…that women can do anything they want and shouldn’t be treated any differently on account of their sex. That was what my mother taught me feminism is about, and I don’t care for anyone trying to turn it into a cry of victimhood. FWIW this is how I tried to raise my daughter. I exposed her to strong female role models. Doctors, business people, race car drivers, attorneys, every strong positive female influence I could find. It seems to have worked beyond my expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/310 "2009-02-04T21:00:58Z")
> [@Omegaman](#): > > Well to be sure we are talking about different things. It is about dealing with others face to face, something I for one at least, aren’t qualified to relate to you with words alone. > > Oh, and you were right about one thing. You can be sure I’m an asshole. I am really unsure what point you are trying to make. You seemed to be defending Shodan by saying what he does is just common courtesy. In the context he used it, the extra firm handshake was intended to convey the message that his daughter had the protection of weight lifter with a black belt in judo. I can use a handshake in more than one way, as I am sure you can as well, but lets remove the medium. It doesn’t matter how the message is conveyed. He has stated his intention is to subtly remind them that a weight lifter with a black belt in judo is looking out for his daughter’s well being. Here, let me quote him: > [@Shodan](#): > > Am I going to make threats to him? No, of course not. Is one of the messages to be communicated that she has a large male who is a weightlifter and a black belt keeping a careful eye out for her well-being? Of course it is. > > Regards, > Shodan Is that what your handshake is trying to communicate? So, **Shodan** , I will rephrase my question: What are is the point of letting them know that you are a large male with a black belt? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/311 "2009-02-04T21:05:48Z")
> [@](#): > > **Rick** said: > FWIW this is how I tried to raise my daughter. I exposed her to strong female role models. Doctors, business people, race car drivers, attorneys, every strong positive female influence I could find. > It seems to have worked beyond my expectations. One of the things that I know my dad did right was to always tell me, and show me, that he believed that I could be anything I wanted to be. He impressed upon me that I should not accept any limitations from anyone who said that girls couldn’t be a doctor, or a lawyer, or an engineer. One of the most important things to him was that both of his daughters grow up to be educated, to have careers, and to never have to rely on a man to support them. My sister and I are both career professionals, although she is in a different field entirely than I am. He’s always been very non-sexist when it comes to those things. The only thing he screwed up was the idea of being the big protector, and that female purity/virginity is some kind of an ideal that should be maintained above all. It’s the only really big mistake he made. We have a pretty good relationship now, except for that one thing. The only thing that I’d ask him to change if my 30something self could talk to him 20 years ago is that. Is that supposed to be so dysfunctional? OK then. It’s dysfunctional. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/312 "2009-02-04T21:34:15Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > **Scumpup** always struck me as a good guy, the kind who it was rather fun to have some German food and German beer with at the Penn Brewery. He seemed like he was not the kind of guy who would in any way have a hangup about female purity. He says that he’s joking, and obviously he’s not going to make any exploding cock rings or force anyone to eat testicles. It just seems like there’s some kernel of truth in there about the whole thing that I never would have previously guessed. > > I guess I had figured **Scumpup** to be the kind who would meet his daughter’s date and get to know the guy and generally be laid back about it since when I met him, he was that laid back guy. > > I’m not just trying to be a bitch, either, by suggesting that it might be worth giving up those jokes (even though he obviously finds them funny) on the chance that his daughter might not and that it could cause some kind of damage to their relationship in the years to come. She’s only 8 years old now, so it’s not like I’m saying that he should just let her run wild at her current age, or that he tells her jokes about dynamite cock rings now, either. > > I thought he might be open to at least hearing the point of view of someone who once was the recipient of those jokes, and maybe consider their potential impact. Not that he should call me for instructions on how to be a parent, just consider this as some of the available information out there. > > Apparently I was wrong about that. My friends, of whom I have a fair few, would agree that your first paragraph is a good, accurate description of me. I am laid back. I’m not hung up on female purity…it’d be difficult for somebody as promiscuous and “adventurous” as I was when single to be all wrapped around the axle over something like that. To that, though, they’d add that I have a morbid and mordant sense of humor. Those of them who have been around my little girl would tell you that she has exactly the same sense of humor. ex. She refers to [this](http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2781942) doll as “Baby Drowns-A-Lot.” She’s fond of gigglingly pointing out that “It looks dead!” I don’t need to worry about warping my daughter. She’s already done that herself. Further, the teenage girls who are a part of my daily life\_my step-daughter and my students\_like me quite well. Among my circle of friends, there are several women who were once teenage students of mine. Several grown men too. These one-time teenagers hold me in enough esteem to have stayed in contact with me and to do things like be in their weddings. The teens who are part of my daily life don’t seem to hold anything at all like the image of me that my detractors are trying to paint in this thread. They seem to consider me a pretty likeable, laid-back, non-judgemental kind of guy even though I am tasked with enforcing rules upon them as part of my job. But I should disregard all that, right? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/313 "2009-02-04T21:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > **Scumpup** said: > But I should disregard all that, right? Do you tell any of them, or their dates, about your firearms and exploding cock rings? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/314 "2009-02-04T21:58:06Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Do you tell any of them, or their dates, about your firearms and exploding cock rings? I taught several of them to shoot and helped them pick out their first guns that they bought themselves; that includes several women. You are certainly aware that I do not own any exploding cock rings. (FTR I don’t own any non-exploding ones, either.) I regularly make context-appropriate jokes. As a teacher, it would be inappropriate for me to make sex-related jokes of any kind around my students. My students are aware that I am a shooter and own many guns. The photograph of me on my desk cradling a rifle and standing over a freshly-killed deer is, no doubt, a big clue about that. Look, I see no evidence in my life of your dire predictions being the least bit accurate. You can continue to be upset, if you want; I can’t do anything about that. I refuse to allow you to guilt-trip me over this. I also do not accept that you know better how to raise my daughter than I do just by virtue of your gender. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/315 "2009-02-04T22:11:45Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I taught several of them to shoot and helped them pick out their first guns that they bought themselves; that includes several women. > > You are certainly aware that I do not own any exploding cock rings. (FTR I don’t own any non-exploding ones, either.) > > I regularly make context-appropriate jokes. As a teacher, it would be inappropriate for me to make sex-related jokes of any kind around my students. My students are aware that I am a shooter and own many guns. The photograph of me on my desk cradling a rifle and standing over a freshly-killed deer is, no doubt, a big clue about that. > > Look, I see no evidence in my life of your dire predictions being the least bit accurate. You can continue to be upset, if you want; I can’t do anything about that. I refuse to allow you to guilt-trip me over this. I also do not accept that you know better how to raise my daughter than I do just by virtue of your gender. That reads to me like, no you would not. So if you do not do the things that **catsix** is warning about, why are you arguing with her about them? You mention context appropriate jokes. Catsix is saying that the jokes early in this thread can be context inappropriate if shared repeatedly by a father in the presence of a daughter. Why does that challenge your worth as a father and human being? Why does my pointing out that some of the jokes don’t sound like jokes, especially when I am talking about trend more than any specific joke? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/316 "2009-02-04T22:14:40Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Feminists are people who think that being female is a handicap, that they need help to get into the upper echelons of anywhere, and whine about the door being locked when they haven’t even tried to open it. > > That’s not me. Serious question: What led you to characterize Feminism this way? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/317 "2009-02-04T22:16:54Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > That reads to me like, no you would not. So if you do not do the things that **catsix** is warning about, why are you arguing with her about them? You mention context appropriate jokes. Catsix is saying that the jokes early in this thread can be context inappropriate if shared repeatedly by a father in the presence of a daughter. Why does that challenge your worth as a father and human being? Why does my pointing out that some of the jokes don’t sound like jokes, especially when I am talking about trend more than any specific joke? > > Jonathan Because the “in the presence of your daughter” part has never been made explicitly clear. It has been more like “since you are the type of person who made this joke at all…” You can page back through the thread and find where, I don’t feel like doing it, but way upthread somewhere I clearly stated that the things one says in the presence of children, including jokes, are different from the kind of things one says around an adults-only group. That was pretty well ignored in the frenzy to characterize me as a vagina-hoarding control freak. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/318 "2009-02-04T22:21:20Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > I am really unsure what point you are trying to make. You seemed to be defending Shodan by saying what he does is just common courtesy. In the context he used it, the extra firm handshake was intended to convey the message that his daughter had the protection of weight lifter with a black belt in judo. I can use a handshake in more than one way, as I am sure you can as well, but lets remove the medium. It doesn’t matter how the message is conveyed. He has stated his intention is to subtly remind them that a weight lifter with a black belt in judo is looking out for his daughter’s well being. Here, let me quote him: > Is that what your handshake is trying to communicate? > > So, **Shodan** , I will rephrase my question: What are is the point of letting them know that you are a large male with a black belt? > > Jonathan I just think you’re reading more into it than there is. I don’t crush peoples hands when I shake them. What I communicate when I give someone a firm handshake that is more firm than I would normally use, is that in fact, I am pleased to meet them and look forward to having an actual relationship with them. There is no hidden agenda, but when starting a new relationship with anyone it is best to be honest, and staightforward letting each participant know where they stand. My personal feeling is, when you can’t start a relationship, men specifically, with a firm handshake and a good look in the eye, I am unlikely to trust you. Having dealt with a good number of men who some might describe as untrustworthy to say the least, it has served me well. I have never laid eyes on **Shodan** , but I have seen a few men like him. It sounds like to me he takes pride in himself, and presents himself in a way that others can see. Standing erect, no shuffling of the feet, I hope you can get my drift here. It’s not something that one can quantify, but is easily seen by someone who realizes that any man can be a friend or a foe. I have never enjoyed living in this manner but when you grow up in a hard way, if you can’t figure out who can be trusted, you end up in the shit. Be sure I am defending **Shodan**. Even others in this thread who have made off color jokes don’t offend me as I’ve lived through a couple of these sessions in my youth. Some men are hard and some just try to be hard. It’s not that difficult to tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/319 "2009-02-04T22:26:32Z")
Here we go, from post #201 > [@Scumpup](#): > > Are you so fucking irretrievably stupid that you think that I’ve my daughter sitting here next to me reading the thread with me? > See, here’s another real world point: Adults don’t talk about grown-up topics or use profanity or make R-rated jokes in front of children. > Jumping Jeebus Krishna on a cracker the shit y’all make up in order to strengthen your “argument.” ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/320 "2009-02-04T22:29:34Z")
The interpretation of eye contact differs from culture to culture, and within cultures, from person to person as well. To some, eye contact is a sign of honesty. To others, its a sign of aggression. Since its the Pit, it would be inappropriate for me to provide cites. But here’s a related fun anecdote. My mom was a teacher for a long time. When she was griping at white kids, she’d say “Look at me in the eyes when I’m talking to you!” When she was griping at black kids, she’d say “Don’t you look me in the eyes!” I offered that as evidence for no conclusion, I just like it as an anecdote even if it may show my mom to be slightly naive or racist. -FrL- [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798.md?page=17)