# Fathers of daughters: Do you think all men are scum till proven otherwise? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798 "2009-01-30T23:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/341 "2009-02-05T12:48:22Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > All these posts about how fucked up relationships are. Either they haven’t got any children, or they can’t get along with their fathers, or their kids are on Prozac or something, while my daughter gets straight A’s, is active in her church, has never even gotten so much as a traffic ticket, and is universally popular and happy > > You do seem to imply that those who are disagreeing with you have one of those things wrong. Now, since I can’t deny not having children, the only part that I think applies to me is the “can’t get along with their fathers”. Which is not true, and it bothers me, rightly, that you lump me in that just because I disagree with you. Cripes, get a fucking grip. You don’t have children. That’s the part that applies to you. Fuck it. We’ve gone well beyond the point where anyone is reading for content. If anybody needs me, I’ll be off in my basement sharpening my castration knives. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/342 "2009-02-05T14:47:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Cripes, get a fucking grip. You don’t have children. That’s the part that applies to you. > > Fuck it. We’ve gone well beyond the point where anyone is reading for content. > > If anybody needs me, I’ll be off in my basement sharpening my castration knives. > > Regards, > Shodan So, again: When does the weightlifting and judo come into play? Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/343 "2009-02-05T14:54:35Z")
> [@cowgirl](#): > > Try again, this time with the rest of post 201, where you have (apparently) twice missed the part where I made explicitly clear who my comments were directed at: > > (emphasis added) Get over it. The only reason you are part of this discussion at all is because you are lucky enough to two far more intelligent people (catsix and strassia) on your side of it. I’ll take the time to clarify for you though: I quoted the post in its entirety. The relevance at this point in the discussion was that I had already indicated that what one says in front of children is different from an adults-only conversation. I was talking about **me** , not you, when I quoted myself. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/344 "2009-02-05T16:03:41Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Get over it. The only reason you are part of this discussion at all is because you are lucky enough to two far more intelligent people (catsix and strassia) on your side of it. I’ll take the time to clarify for you though: I quoted the post in its entirety. The relevance at this point in the discussion was that I had already indicated that what one says in front of children is different from an adults-only conversation. I was talking about **me** , not you, when I quoted myself. Great jumping Jehoshaphat, what are we even arguing about again? As near as I can remember, this started because some, including me and a moderator, begin to feel that some of the jokes had stopped being jokes. **Catsix** thinks even the jokes are harmful to young girls (I can see that point, as apparently can you **Scumpup** ). You started out arguing that because you were joking we we where ridiculous to think anyone could be serious. **Shodan** seems to think that it is important to make sure that his daughters dates know he is physically capable of protecting her, but denies that it has anything to do with physically protecting her. And now, half the people left in this cluster f\*%$ are just argueing about who they are talking about and what caveats were missed. If I wasn’t so stubborn, I would probably leave this to die a natural death. **Scumpup** , over the course of this thread, what I have really said that you disagree with? I think it comes down to in your experience, fathers don’t really act like the stereotype, and in mine they do. If that is all, then I wish you and your whole family well, hope you all have a good life, and propose we agree to disagree on how common such attitudes are. **Shodan** , on the other hand, I still want to know why it is important to let your daughter’s dates know about the weightlifting and the judo. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/345 "2009-02-05T16:17:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Scumpup, over the course of this thread, what I have really said that you disagree with? I think it comes down to in your experience, fathers don’t really act like the stereotype, and in mine they do. If that is all, then I wish you and your whole family well, hope you all have a good life, and propose we agree to disagree on how common such attitudes are. Mainly, what I disagree with is the attitude that anybody who makes such a joke is a dreadful person who will screw up his children’s lives. All of the bitching in this thread has been more-or-less predicated on the idea that if a person makes such a joke in this thread, why, he must either really be doing those things or spouting such jokes in front of his children. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/346 "2009-02-05T16:37:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Mainly, what I disagree with is the attitude that anybody who makes such a joke is a dreadful person who will screw up his children’s lives. All of the bitching in this thread has been more-or-less predicated on the idea that if a person makes such a joke in this thread, why, he must either really be doing those things or spouting such jokes in front of his children. See, that is not what I have been saying. What I have been saying is two things: 1. It is reasonable to expect people to be offended by jokes about offensive subjects when it is hard to tell if it is a joke or serious. And, I guess, that offensive threads should be in the pit. 2. The attitude portrayed in the joke, which is sometimes subtle (\*\*Shodan’\*\*s handshake type, or repeatedly telling these jokes in the presence of the daughter in question in an ambiguous way), is counterproductive and ultimately self-serving. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/347 "2009-02-05T16:40:59Z")
See, you’re lecturing me…again. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/348 "2009-02-05T16:44:55Z")
> [@](#): > > **Scumpup** said: > Mainly, what I disagree with is the attitude that anybody who makes such a joke is a dreadful person who will screw up his children’s lives. All of the bitching in this thread has been more-or-less predicated on the idea that if a person makes such a joke in this thread, why, he must either really be doing those things or spouting such jokes in front of his children. Can we agree that these jokes might not be taken well by a daughter and that it may not be apparent to the father if that is the case? The only suggestion I make is that you consider that when deciding if you will crack these jokes in front of your daughter when she is older. Ignore it if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/349 "2009-02-05T16:46:16Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Can we agree that these jokes might not be taken well by a daughter and that it may not be apparent to the father if that is the case? > > The only suggestion I make is that you consider that when deciding if you will crack these jokes in front of your daughter when she is older. Ignore it if you wish. I’ve said over and over that jokes must be told in the appropriate context. You still owe me a beer. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/350 "2009-02-05T16:50:53Z")
> [@](#): > > **Scumpup** said: > I’ve said over and over that jokes must be told in the appropriate context. OK then we have found an agreement. > [@](#): > > You still owe me a beer. I have not forgot. When and where? ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/351 "2009-02-05T17:11:35Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > See, you’re lecturing me…again. Wait, where did I lecture you? I restated the points I had originally made and said that if they didn’t apply to you, then I did not mean them as critiques of you. So I will say it again: Those were my positions: If you disagree with them, we can discuss it, if you don’t sorry for the misunderstanding. Jonathan ETA: If you are talking about the second part of my post where I talked about where I thought this was going, it was not a critique of you or anyone else specifically. I find the sociological aspects of humor interesting and would have enjoyed discussing this case. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/352 "2009-02-05T17:18:41Z")
At this point, I think we’ve reached some understanding. I apologize to **catsix** for my earlier flood of profanity directed at her. **5-HT** is still a creepy, skeevey asshole, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/353 "2009-02-05T17:29:52Z")
I still contend that all men are scum. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/354 "2009-02-05T17:30:52Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I still contend that all men are scum. You sexist! All human beings are scum! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/355 "2009-02-05T17:33:30Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I still contend that all men are scum. Scum, like cream, rises to the top. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/356 "2009-02-05T18:26:44Z")
> [@](#): > > **Scumpup** said: > I apologize to catsix for my earlier flood of profanity directed at her. No problem. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/357 "2009-02-05T20:21:46Z")
> [@wring](#): > > Please, oh please do not ask this in the thread - if you’re really interested, either open another thread or use PM or something - Trust me, the answer would derail the entire thing. Seriously. By my estimate, the thread’s already been derailed thrice. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/358 "2009-02-05T20:42:38Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Scum, like cream, rises to the top. _My_ cream’s surely rising to the top with all this talk of nubile teenage girls. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/359 "2009-02-05T20:48:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > By my estimate, the thread’s already been derailed thrice. Is that all? That is less than once every two pages. We can do better! This whole argument proves that you should circumcise your sons! And declaw your cat! And take off your shoes before coming into the house! That should get us back on track. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/360 "2009-02-05T21:21:39Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > _My_ cream’s surely rising to the top with all this talk of nubile teenage girls. Shhhh. That guy’s got a black belt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798.md?page=19)