# Fathers of daughters: Do you think all men are scum till proven otherwise? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798 "2009-01-30T23:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/61 "2009-02-01T21:00:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Yes, I am really surprised that it is not common knowledge, as well. > > IME, girls are quite likely to be sexually aggressive. > > -FrL- I need to get out more, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/62 "2009-02-01T21:03:38Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > This really is a cultural difference between the Netherlands and the USA. > Dutch men, (and we’re talking average numbers here, I’m sure there are exceptions) are much more influenced by feminism. Both the instinct to “hunt women” and the instinct to protect women are much, much less prominent here. On the instinct to “hunt women” I disagree that it was influenced by feminism. Growing up in an ex-patriot Dutch community in Canada well before feminism arose to the forefront I noticed that there was a hell of a lot more respect for women in that regard than in the general Canadian population. On the lack of instinct to “protect women”, and I assume you mean from asshole men, I’ll agree that feminism has something to do with it, but that has happened here in Canada as well IMHO. > [@](#): > > They are bigger wusses, perhaps. I recall a show where a Duch camerateam were offered some prostitutes by an local warlord they were making a documentary about. The girls wriggled on the Dutch guys laps, but even the ones who didn’t have girlfriends at home tried to make polite conversation with the girls instead of flirting back. > > Just yesterday, there was a show on TV about Dutch athletes beign stationed in African tribes to see if they could measure up to the native’s demands for a “real warrior”. At least two of the boys would rather endure taunting then hit each other with sticks. The only time one of those boys stepped in to do anyting violent was when a cow, clumsily slaughtered for the feast of their arrival that night, needed to be put out of its mystery with a big rock to its head. Wusses? Hardly. I’d suggest your attitude towards young men of say America has been influenced by too many American movies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/63 "2009-02-01T21:17:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > All men interested in dating your daughter(s) that is. And if so, why? > > For purposes of this discussion, men includes boys over the age of 12. > > [Inspired by this post of **Oakminster’s**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10764473&postcount=6), which was probably a joke, but even so. I’m a father of two daughters, one who is happily married and the other, 17, who has a great boyfriend I seriously like. When I was dating, I was scum. Not proud of it. But I can recognize scum very quickly, call it scumdar, and I see lots of young men who treat young women with respect so I don’t need to start from the position that all men are scum. The most important thing a father can do is to raise their daughters to be independant and respect themselves. Then they are able to weed their scum dates out for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/64 "2009-02-01T21:25:52Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’m a father of two daughters, one who is happily married and the other, 17, who has a great boyfriend I seriously like. > > When I was dating, I was scum. Not proud of it. But I can recognize scum very quickly, call it scumdar, and I see lots of young men who treat young women with respect so I don’t need to start from the position that all men are scum. > > The most important thing a father can do is to raise their daughters to be independant and respect themselves. Then they are able to weed their scum dates out for themselves. I’m still not clear on the definition of “scum.” Is that just anyone who wants to have sex without benefit of marriage with your daughter? And when you say daughters should “respect themselves”, does that mean they can have an active sex life if they’re responsible for their own birth control? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/65 "2009-02-01T21:25:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It doesn’t seem that lighthearted to me. Imagine how well a thread titled “\*\*Do you think all women are scum till proven otherwise?” \*\*would go over. I meant it to be lighthearted. I mean, seriously, this ME we’re talking about. What the fuck is this doing in the Pit now? ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/66 "2009-02-01T21:45:11Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I’m still not clear on the definition of “scum.” Is that just anyone who wants to have sex without benefit of marriage with your daughter? And when you say daughters should “respect themselves”, does that mean they can have an active sex life if they’re responsible for their own birth control? You raise some very good points, here. In fact, I’d like to see some fathers answer these questions. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/67 "2009-02-01T21:47:47Z")
Look, every father KNOWS that teenage boys are horny animals who’d say or do ANYTHING to get laid because every father WAS a teenage horny animal who’d have said or done anything to have gotten laid. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/68 "2009-02-01T21:52:11Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > This really is a cultural difference between the Netherlands and the USA. > Dutch men, (and we’re talking average numbers here, I’m sure there are exceptions) are much more influenced by feminism. Both the instinct to “hunt women” and the instinct to protect women are much, much less prominent here. Your society is much older than ours–you’ve had more time to become civilized. I have _some_ hope that the U.S. will eventually advance socially to the level that the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark and some other countries are at already. It is sad, however, how many Americans take stupid pride in our archaic and harmful ideas of sexual and gender relations and look down on men in the more advanced nations as “pussies”. Oh well… U.S.A. #1 !!! WOOH! WOOH! WOOH! WOOH! ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/69 "2009-02-01T21:58:36Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > On the instinct to “hunt women” I disagree that it was influenced by feminism. .. I agree with you. Though I also agree with **Maastricht** , dutch guys lack the whole “female as prey” thing. Dutch women also appear to me to lack it also so possibly they don’t miss it. They do complain that their men are not romatic enough, it must be said, but if you won’t act like proper prey then you cannot get the bait it seems to me. Seriously, I don’t know what that dynamic is, I lack entree into that world I am afraid, being a respectable old matron these days. But the fellows in brabant anyway are about as feminist as…something not at all feminist. My own impression is that these attitudes predate the feminist movement, though – certainly the role of mother is quite firmly entrenched here (though wife is rather optional). ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/70 "2009-02-01T22:01:12Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I think it’s a literal tragedy what we’re doing to ourselves and men over that issue, and with no good reason. Being suspect of pubescent and post-pubescent boys around pubescent and post-pubescent girls? Understandable, if distasteful. Being suspect of all men around pre-pubescent girls? Irrational, prejudicial and damaging to the very fabric of our society. Exactly right. See **Maastricht’s** post (the one I quoted in my last post) about the differences between the Netherlands and the USA when it comes to paranoia (USA) or the relative lack thereof (NED) concerning sex. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/71 "2009-02-01T22:03:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I meant it to be lighthearted. I mean, seriously, this ME we’re talking about. > > What the fuck is this doing in the Pit now? Because of posts like ( not to single out **astorian** ) : > [@astorian](#): > > Look, every father KNOWS that teenage boys are horny animals who’d say or do ANYTHING to get laid because every father WAS a teenage horny animal who’d have said or done anything to have gotten laid. “Boy are all mad dogs” is a Pit position, not an IMHO position. And not very lighthearted. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/72 "2009-02-01T22:16:32Z")
> [@hobscrk777](#): > > I need to get out more, apparently. Perhaps not. I’ve never been much of a socialite myself. Naturally, neither are the people I know, including the girls I have known. Perhaps these more sexually aggressive girls I’m talking about, then, are more likely to be of the type that is friends with those who “don’t get out much.” 😉 -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/73 "2009-02-01T22:19:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because of posts like ( not to single out **astorian** ) : > > “Boy are all mad dogs” is a Pit position, not an IMHO position. And not very lighthearted. I thought of posting a long involved screed on people taking things too seriously and needing to get over themselves and perhaps, when tempted to get offended, eat a cup of chocolate ice cream with Oreos crumbs sprinkled on top and chocolate syrup slathered atop that, but I decided instead to eat some yogurt. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/74 "2009-02-01T22:25:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I thought of posting a long involved screed on people taking things too seriously and needing to get over themselves and perhaps, when tempted to get offended, eat a cup of chocolate ice cream with Oreos crumbs sprinkled on top and chocolate syrup slathered atop that, but I decided instead to eat some yogurt. What the FUCK is this supposed to mean??? :mad: Seriously **Skald** , fuck you! It’s posts like this that make me want to just punch someone in the face until my hand is bleeding and… oooooh, a cupcake! _Becomes instantly beatific and docile_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/75 "2009-02-01T22:27:26Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > What the FUCK is this supposed to mean??? :mad: > > Seriously **Skald** , fuck you! It’s posts like this that make me want to just punch someone in the face until my hand is bleeding and… oooooh, a cupcake! > > _Becomes instantly beatific and docile_ You bastard. You KNOW I can’t have cupcake! Stupid diabetes. Stupid no-longer-doing-evil-overlord-bit-and-thus-not-able-to-threaten-people-with-hordes-of-rabid-chipmunks. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/76 "2009-02-01T22:32:04Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You bastard. You KNOW I can’t have cupcake! > > Stupid diabetes. Stupid no-longer-doing-evil-overlord-bit-and-thus-not-able-to-threaten-people-with-hordes-of-rabid-chipmunks. If it makes you feel better I’m on Weight Watchers, so cupcakes aren’t exactly a staple of my diet either right now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/77 "2009-02-01T22:35:35Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > If it makes you feel better I’m on Weight Watchers, so cupcakes aren’t exactly a staple of my diet either right now. 😉 You can make it up to me by helping me get my 5-seconds-ago-time-viewer-thingie-I-stole-from-“The-Dead-Past” working. I want to get it online before Natalie Portman gets into the shower at :: checks stalker log :: 1800 Central Standard Time. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/78 "2009-02-01T22:41:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You can make it up to me by helping me get my 5-seconds-ago-time-viewer-thingie-I-stole-from-“The-Dead-Past” working. I want to get it online before Natalie Portman gets into the shower at > > :: checks stalker log :: > > 1800 Central Standard Time. Only if I get to borrow it afterwards so I can set it up in the changing room in time for the England rugby team. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/79 "2009-02-01T22:44:23Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Only if I get to borrow it afterwards so I can set it up in the changing room in time for the England rugby team. I’ll upload you the specs and you can build your own. It’s too heavy to cart around and frankly I don’t find the idea of naked rugby players appealing. (Though I reserve the right to change my mind in the advent of female rugby teams or the inclusion of Taye Diggs on such a team.) (Think the thread’s light-hearted enough now, people?) ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fathers-of-daughters-do-you-think-all-men-are-scum-till-proven-otherwise/483798/80 "2009-02-01T22:49:42Z")
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