# Fatima message is secret no more **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [May 15, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221 "2002-05-15T17:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/21 "2002-05-17T22:31:45Z")
Wait a minute. John Paul _the First_ died suddenly, about five weeks after being installed as Pope. Could it be him? Oh. He wasn’t shot. But here’s a page about a book suggesting (rather obnoxiously, I admit) that he was _poisoned:_ [http://www.crc-internet.org/oct84.htm THE MURDER OF POPE JOHN PAUL I](http://www.crc-internet.org/oct84.htm) Ah, what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/22 "2002-05-18T06:57:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > This isn’t true; the colors of vestments are seasonal. It’s true that priests and monsignors are mostly seen in black, that red the “the color of cardinals,” and that the Pope wears white very often, but at various times of the year, any priest might be required to wear white or red vestments. Blue is not a liturgical color at all, although it’s popular for christenings. > > At any rate, I’ve seen pictures of Archbishop Romero in white vestments. I think Chronos was talking only about cleric’s everyday wear, i.e. their cassocks. Those are different than vestments, which are worn only during services. If I remember correctly, monsignors wear black with some kind of red trim. It’s been years since I’ve seen a bishop in person, but I don’t remember seeing one wearing blue. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2002, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/23 "2002-05-19T21:07:40Z")
**Nametag** is right about the vestments – in any case nothing in the message says _what kind of_ white garb the bishop is wearing. The cassock colors in temperate climates is black, w. red accessories for monsignors and above; but in tropical climates it is not uncommon for the everyday cassock/clerical shirt to be plain white, like what the Pope usually wears (with the higher ranks being distinguished by such accessories as skullcaps, cummerbunds, shoulder-capes, and more elaborate crucifixes);cardinals wear red robes and a red toque (similar to a Professor’s academic toque) for formal ocassions, otherwise they wear bishop’s garb. Liturgical vestments are gold, purple(violet), green, and/or red, all over a white tunic. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/24 "2002-05-20T13:20:20Z")
Oh, and yes… IRT Fatima it always struck me as kind of odd that a vision of _Mary_ by _children_, traditionally a harbinger of healing and other good, positive things (e.g. Lourdes), would be the vehicle for this sort of heavy apocalyptic material. Like I mentioned, with all the "messages’ beign committed to paper more than 20 years after the fact, and “by instruction of the Bishop”, I was left to wonder about both the reliability of witnesses’ memories AND what things the church authorities may have been pumping into their minds from such an early age. The accounts of the Fatima apparition tends to include straw-men villains of civil authorities, Masons, liberal churchmen and other skeptics trying to suppress the apparition. Portugal had only recently switched from a monarchy to a republic and established some of the dreaded “liberal”[gasp!] and “modernist”[shudder!] policies; and it happenning in 1917 (middle of WW1) and being written down in 1941-44 (middle of WW2) somehow makes it too convenient a time for Mary to be calling attention to the faithful to be careful of political threats. ---
**Author:** ![hyjyljyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/0ea827/32.png) [@hyjyljyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hyjyljyj)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/25 "2002-05-21T13:25:46Z")
Very superstitious _Writings on the wall_ When you believe in things That you don’t understand Then you suffer Superstition ain’t the way Hey hey hey Speaking of which, someone said the Bible forbids contraception in the phrase “Be fruitful and multiply”. But then! Priests don’t have sex [usually]. So they violate the Bible and are obviously on the way to The Lake. They’re goin’ either way. If they don’t have sex, they’re goin’. And if they do have sex, they’re goin’. They can see that they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. So they figure they might as well have some naughty jollies here on earth while they can, since they’re in for an Eternal Barbecue anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ibdieter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ac91a4/32.png) [@ibdieter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ibdieter)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/26 "2002-05-21T16:02:22Z")
So what’s the explanation? What did the local forecasters say about that one? Seriously. 100,000 people saw the sun dance in the sky for ten minutes? What? ?? ---
**Author:** ![AofI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@AofI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AofI)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/27 "2002-05-22T02:15:04Z")
“Be fruitful and multiply” ?? How long has mankind known mathematics? Stupid question but does anyone know the answerer ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/28 "2002-05-22T13:40:27Z")
The “dancing sun”: there’s no reports of odd astronomical phenomena on that date elsewhere, except at Fatima and the countryside in the immediate line-of-sight radius. The description of the phenomenon is that the overcast parted, and: > [@](#): > > A light was seen in the sky, which looked like the sun. It was visible within a radius of more than twenty miles, clearly defined (hence not something seen through a fog or mist), whirled in the sky like a wheel of fire, threw off shafts of colored light which colored objects on the ground. After several minutes, it seemed suddenly to loose itself from the sky and to plummet toward the earth, causing the crowd to believe that the world was about to end. It was over in twelve minutes. Other observers refer to it as “as if of mother-of-pearl” and being able to look at the disc directly. Some critical observers at the time did report that _some_ odd atmospheric phenomena _did_ happen at that date, though it seemed clear to them that it was not the actual sun that was doing any of these aerobatics (which is damn obvious IMO); but there’s not enough objective info to say what the heck it was. Ball lightning, mass hallucination, UFOs, if you want to remain biblical and believe it’s a divine sign you could refer to Ezekiel’s or Elijah’s chariots; take your pick. IIRC the Church itself considers as a miraculous sign the _vision_ of the “sun” moving, and some associated phenomena, NOT that the sun did actually move. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/29 "2002-05-24T04:45:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*\<\< Tell me again where the bible says birth control is wrong? \>\> > > Saint Peter’s letter to the Obstetricians, 4:13: “For the condom shalt thou not use, neither any interuterine devices, for they are unnatural in the sight of those who manufacture coat hangers.” \*\* Man, what sort of a fucked up version of the Big B are you reading from CKDH? Are you _sure_ that thing has been translated under the guidance of Himself? I’m pretty sure it was supposed to say: “For the party balloon thou shalt not use, neither the pointy plastic catapult, for they are as dangerous to one’s eyesight as the manufacture of coat hangers” ---
**Author:** ![jonk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jonk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonk)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/30 "2002-05-24T18:35:41Z")
Footnote: The Catholic church’s position on birth control is not based on any biblical injunction, but rather on what theologians refer to as “natural law”, derived from what is sometimes called natural theology to distinguish it from revealed theology (e.g., the Bible). This interpretation of natural law came via a papal encyclical. (Please note this is not a endorsement on way or the other, but a clarification) ---
**Author:** ![hrothgleas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8dc957/32.png) [@hrothgleas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hrothgleas)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/31 "2002-05-30T16:12:08Z")
I think it’s interesting to note that on BOTH times humans were commanded to ‘be fruitful and multiply’, the total population of humans is in single digits. (Adam and Eve in the Garden, Noah and his family after the Flood). I’d suggest those were special cases… ---
**Author:** ![hillbillycavewoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bc8723/32.png) [@hillbillycavewoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hillbillycavewoman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2002, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221/32 "2002-06-02T22:06:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > \*\*\<\< Tell me again where the bible says birth control is wrong? \>\> > > Saint Peter’s letter to the Obstetricians, 4:13: “For the condom shalt thou not use, neither any interuterine devices, for they are unnatural in the sight of those who manufacture coat hangers.” \*\* (Laughing Out Loud, Fell Off My Chair) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fatima-message-is-secret-no-more/109221.md?page=1)