# Faulty logic in entertainment **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910 "2011-08-08T03:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/1 "2011-08-08T03:41:00Z")
Dido, “White Flag.” The whole song really, but especially this line that keeps running through my head: “I know you think that I shouldn’t still love you / I’ll tell you that But if I didn’t say it / Well, I’d still have felt it / Where’s the sense in that?” What kind of rationale is that, lady? I know I should keep my mouth shut, but I’m feeling what I want to say, so what sense is there in keeping my mouth shut? Amy Winehouse, “You Know I’m No Good.” If you cheated yourself _like you knew you would_, can you say you’re really cheating yourself rather than simply doing what you wanted to do in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/2 "2011-08-08T08:49:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Dido, “White Flag.” The whole song really, but especially this line that keeps running through my head: “I know you think that I shouldn’t still love you / I’ll tell you that > But if I didn’t say it / Well, I’d still have felt it / Where’s the sense in that?” What kind of rationale is that, lady? I know I should keep my mouth shut, but I’m feeling what I want to say, so what sense is there in keeping my mouth shut? How does that not make sense - _if_ you believe that being true to your feelings is better than living a lie, it makes perfect sense. And it’s not “I’ll tell you that”, it’s “Or tell you that”, meaning he wants her to stop telling him she still loves him. It doesn’t make sense only if you think that “getting along” or “just staying friends” is a worthier goal. The whole song’s just her saying that she isn’t the one who wants to end the relationship, and calling her boyfriend a quitter. Not in a stalkerish way, just in the way of all one-sided relationships. “I will always love you” and all that… I’m not sure I should show my face in the Punk thread after this in-depth analysis of Dido lyrics 🙂 But I like kitchen sink songs, damn it. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/3 "2011-08-08T10:57:36Z")
Not quite faulty logic, but when Simon and Garfunkel (and later Billy Bragg) sang “I was 21 years when I wrote this song. I’m 22 now, but I won’t be for long”, it always bothered me. How did you write a song without singing it as you went along? How did you know, when you wrote it, that you weren’t going to sing it for at least 12 months? Why is the song about being 22, when you wrote it when you were 21? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/4 "2011-08-08T11:32:07Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It doesn’t make sense only if you think that “getting along” or “just staying friends” is a worthier goal. The whole song’s just her saying that she isn’t the one who wants to end the relationship, and calling her boyfriend a quitter. Not in a stalkerish way, just in the way of all one-sided relationships. “I will always love you” and all that… But that contradicts everything else she’s saying about how it’s already the aftermath of a breakup where she (specifically) left too much mess and destruction for her to come back again. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/5 "2011-08-08T12:27:19Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > Not quite faulty logic, but when Simon and Garfunkel (and later Billy Bragg) sang “I was 21 years when I wrote this song. I’m 22 now, but I won’t be for long”, it always bothered me. > > How did you write a song without singing it as you went along? How did you know, when you wrote it, that you weren’t going to sing it for at least 12 months? Why is the song about being 22, when you wrote it when you were 21? Why is this even difficult? The lyrics are simple. 1. He wrote this song when he was 21 and set it aside. 2. Now he’s 22. That’s when he recorded it (artists go back to complete older work all the time) and made minor changes to the lyrics. 3. He’ll soon turn 23. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/6 "2011-08-08T12:29:11Z")
Savage Garden, [The Animal Song](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/savagegarden/theanimalsong.html): ([video here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15ZrZXhXe8)) [QUOTE=Savage Garden] Animals and children tell the truth, they never lie Which one is more human There’s a thought, now you decide [/QUOTE] Anybody who has ever spent any time with either children or animals know they lie whenever they think they might get away with something. Also their attempt at pseudo-philosophical thought is a sad failure. I also don’t understand what the references to cannonballs are all about. ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/7 "2011-08-08T12:29:47Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Why is this even difficult? The lyrics are simple. > > 1. He wrote this song when he was 21 and set it aside. > 2. Now he’s 22. That’s when he recorded it (artists go back to complete older work all the time) and made minor changes to the lyrics. > 3. He’ll soon turn 23. So, he wrote it without singing it? Not even once? Not even to see if the line scanned? ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/8 "2011-08-08T12:50:22Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > But that contradicts everything else she’s saying about how it’s already the aftermath of a breakup where she (specifically) left too much mess and destruction for her to come back again. Yes, the lyrics are definitely confused and paradoxical, but that doesn’t stop me from liking them. She admits that the relationship is ruined, and takes her responsibiltiy for that, (though she doesn’t specifically say that he didn’t leave mess and destruction too,) but she’s either proud or fatalistic about refusing to give up on her love. By the bridge, she seems to have changed her mind about not speaking up: “I’ll let it pass and hold my tongue / and you will think that I’ve moved on.” ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/9 "2011-08-08T13:14:20Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Savage Garden, [The Animal Song](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/savagegarden/theanimalsong.html): ([video here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15ZrZXhXe8)) > Anybody who has ever spent any time with either children or animals know they lie whenever they think they might get away with something. > > Also their attempt at pseudo-philosophical thought is a sad failure. I also don’t understand what the references to cannonballs are all about. I had this song in mind when I went into this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/10 "2011-08-08T13:20:51Z")
I bet you think this song is about you. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/11 "2011-08-08T13:55:16Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I bet you think this song is about you. She’s not saying that the song isn’t about him, she’s saying that any normal person who acts decent would hear it and think “Wow, I wonder who she’s so pissed at?” instead of “Hey, a song about me!” The fact that he’d think “It’s me!” drives home the fact that he’s a dick. No immediate title/artists spring to mind because it’s not really my genre but I’ve heard several “girl power” type songs along the vein of “You’re a dirty cheater and we broke up and I’ve already forgotten you but you’re going to miss me so much”. Honey, he’s in bed with some random floozy while you’re writing songs about him. You’ve already lost that war. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/12 "2011-08-08T14:39:01Z")
And I guess my contribution to the thread would be the Ennis Sisters, “I’d never walk away”, in the chorus: “You didn’t love me, 'cause if you loved me, I’d never walk away…” Sorry, you’ve got it backwards. You already decided that he didn’t love you, and that’s why you’re leaving. You can’t use your own leaving as proof that he doesn’t love you. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/13 "2011-08-08T14:47:41Z")
To be fair, he said he’d do anything for love. But he wouldn’t do _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/14 "2011-08-08T16:25:43Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > So, he wrote it without singing it? Not even once? Not even to see if the line scanned? Of course he did. So what? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/15 "2011-08-08T21:59:46Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > But that contradicts everything else she’s saying about how it’s already the aftermath of a breakup where she (specifically) left too much mess and destruction for her to come back again. …but she \*wants \*to. That doesn’t change, just because she _can’t_. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/16 "2011-08-08T22:02:37Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > So, he wrote it without singing it? Not even once? Not even to see if the line scanned? Maybe he means when he wrote the music, not the lyrics? Simon, I mean, Bragg was clearly just shouting out. ---
**Author:** ![carlotta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@carlotta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlotta)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faulty-logic-in-entertainment/591910/17 "2011-08-09T00:12:43Z")
"Alice’s Restaurant is not the name of the restaurant, it’s just the name of the song, which is why I called the song “Alice’s Restaurant”