# Fawlty Towers ep. The Germans - "...took her to see India"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 4, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000 "2011-12-04T02:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/101 "2011-12-07T21:41:03Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The exact phrase the Major used was “I took her to **see** India”. My bolding. [cite.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s4BqzHEK6o) That’s a lot more open to interpretation, and is somewhat unusual if he meant “I took her to the country of India.” - that’s what you would express as “I took her to India”. When he said “at the Oval”, I like many/most Americans assumed there was a movie called India and the Oval was a theater. Just as if someone 2 years ago told me “I took her to see Australia” I’d assume he meant the Nicole Kidman movie and not the country. The Major does go on a bit with what I now realize is some cricket jargon (“Sunny had to get 33 in about half an hour” ?) but if you know nothing about cricket that goes right over your head. “Sunny” would of course be [Sunil Gavaskar,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunil_Gavaskar) one of the world’s greatest cricketers. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/102 "2011-12-07T22:07:15Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > “Sunny” would of course be [Sunil Gavaskar,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunil_Gavaskar) one of the world’s greatest cricketers. I think he actually says “\*Surrey \*had to get 33”. The match, then, would have been India vs. Surrey rather than a test match (the Oval being Surrey’s home ground, of course). It makes more sense than saying that Gavaskar would have to get 33, and anyway it sounds like the Major is talking about a long time previously. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/103 "2011-12-07T23:15:14Z")
> [@APB](#): > > At the risk of overexplaining a great joke, there are two nuances I think you’re all still missing. > > No. If he had said, ‘I took her to India’, he could have been going to India the country for any purpose and so happened to take her along with him (because he was so keen on her). But to speak of going to _see_ somewhere rather implies that one had visited that place as a tourist. Moreover, by saying ‘I took her to see India’, he seems to be implying that they visited India the country specifically so that he could show her the sights of the sub-continent. Which does seem a wildly romantic gesture. Hence Basil’s incredulity. > > But taking her to see India the cricket team is, if anything, even more improbable. For if a trip to see India the country is implausibly romantic, a trip to see India the cricket team isn’t romantic at all. The (somewhat inaccurate) stereotype on which it’s playing is that women are not interested in cricket and that only men would ever go to a match at the Oval. Part of the joke is that the Major is so clueless about women that he took one to a cricket match! > > The exchange is very cleverly constructed. The audience doesn’t really have the chance to think about what the Major means by ‘India’ before Basil, who clearly thinks he means the country, has interjected to query him. So in that split second, we have been encouraged to think he means the country, while simultaneously having the doubt introduced, only for the Major immediately to clarify the point with maximum bathos. And, of course, the Major remains oblivious to that fact that there was any ambiguity. Having read how precisely Cleese & Booth wrote that show, you’re definitely not over-analyzing it. I can picture the two of them having exactly the above conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/104 "2011-12-07T23:44:20Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Well, Basil was based on a real hotel owner John Cleese had to deal with. So in that respect, I think Basil was meant to be a villain. > > With that said, I too find him sympathetic. It’s generally pretty clear he’s not _usually_ being a dick just to be a dick, but because the customer did something that violated his sense of decency. > > It’s the kind of person that were you to meet yourself and have him react as he sometimes does on the show, yes, you would hate him. But as an objective viewer, I don’t hate him at all. I’m thinking of the episode where he tries to surprise his little pit viper on their anniversary. If he hadn’t tried so hard to be clever, to pretend to forget, or just admitted what was happening when their friends showed up, everything would have been fine; maybe not perfectly according to his grand master plan, but not the inevitable catastrophe that followed. If he’d just been willing to pay Terry to stay late and cook for the loudmouthed American and his wife, it would have been okay. Didn’t the guy slip him ten pounds to keep the kitchen open, and he was only gonna pay Terry five? Dude, keep the guests and your chef happy, pocket the extra five pounds for doing nothing, and call it a night. The things that set Basil off aren’t unforeseeable; it’s just the sort of slight randomness that everybody deals with every day, but Basil’s response is always to make it a hundred times worse. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/105 "2011-12-07T23:53:26Z")
Here is the full exchange, from the episode itself: > [@](#): > > The Major: Strange creatures, women. I knew one once… striking-looking girl… tall, you know… father was a banker. > Basil: Really? > The Major: Don’t remember the name of the bank. > Basil: Never mind. > The Major: I must have been rather keen on her because I took her to see… India! > Basil: India? > The Major: At the Oval… fine match, marvelous finish… now, Surrey had to get thirty-three in about half an hour… she went off to powder her… powder her hands or something… women… er… never came back. > Basil: What a shame. > The Major: And the strange thing was… throughout the morning she kept referring to the Indians as niggers. “No no no,” I said, “the niggers are the West Indians. These people are wogs.” “No, no,” she said. “All cricketers are niggers.” > Basil: They do get awfully confused, don’t they? They’re not thinkers. I see it with Sybil everyday. > The Major: I do wish I could remember her name. She’s still got my wallet. > Basil: As I was saying, no capacity for logical thought. > The Major: Who? > Basil: Women. > The Major: Oh yes, yes… I thought you meant Indians. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/106 "2011-12-08T00:42:09Z")
I watched the first three episodes on Netflix streaming last night. It definitely didn’t make me laugh as much as it did the first time but I got a lot of great belly laughs out of it. There is one shot in the Wedding Party that truly shows Cleese’s genius. When he comes downstairs to tell Sybil what he has uncovered about the guests and then when she explains the truth, the camera is tight on Basil’s face. His expression changes from triumph to realization to horror over several seconds. It’s so subtle and perfect and hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/107 "2011-12-08T04:31:19Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Well, Basil was based on a real hotel owner John Cleese had to deal with. So in that respect, I think Basil was meant to be a villain. > > With that said, I too find him sympathetic. It’s generally pretty clear he’s not _usually_ being a dick just to be a dick, but because the customer did something that violated his sense of decency. > > It’s the kind of person that were you to meet yourself and have him react as he sometimes does on the show, yes, you would hate him. But as an objective viewer, I don’t hate him at all. That’s kind of the point, though. There are very few famous villainous dramatis personae who are motivated purely by being a dick. Perhaps Milton’s Satan and Shakespeare’s Iago, but I can’t think of any others. Cleese encountered [Donald Sinclair](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sinclair_(hotel_owner)) and thought he’d make a great comic character, but the character would have been completely hollow had he not had motivation for his dickish behaviour. It’s the tension between that sense of ‘decency’ - including xenophobia, wistfulness for a world that never really existed, raging snobbery, a heap of prejudices, jealousy, sexual inadequacy, fear of Sybil - and reality that creates the behaviour and thus the fulcrum for the comedy. Basil does suffer from external circumstance too, but mainly from his own inadequacies. Exaggerated though he is, we are necessarily sympathetic to him as we watch him exacerbate that suffering due to his character quirks, slowly turning mild inconveniences into gigantic train wrecks. Without our guilty empathy, the show would just have been a cartoon, rather than the towering work of genius that it actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/108 "2011-12-08T04:55:51Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > That’s kind of the point, though. I think that was kind of my point too. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/109 "2011-12-08T19:53:23Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > but the character would have been completely hollow had he not had motivation for his dickish behaviour. It’s the tension between that sense of ‘decency’ - including xenophobia, wistfulness for a world that never really existed, raging snobbery, a heap of prejudices, jealousy, sexual inadequacy, fear of Sybil - and reality that creates the behaviour and thus the fulcrum for the comedy. > > Basil does suffer from external circumstance too, but mainly from his own inadequacies. Exaggerated though he is, we are necessarily sympathetic to him as we watch him exacerbate that suffering due to his character quirks, slowly turning mild inconveniences into gigantic train wrecks. Without our guilty empathy, the show would just have been a cartoon, rather than the towering work of genius that it actually is. _Excellent_ summary. Applause. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/110 "2011-12-08T21:58:08Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Sorry, you lost me. Monty Python sketch: [Emigration From Subiton to Hounslow](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgHsCyWkB5g) (video) ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/111 "2011-12-08T22:34:12Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Monty Python sketch: [Emigration From Subiton to Hounslow](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgHsCyWkB5g) (video) Ah. I fail at Monty Python knowledge. I shall now go to bed without any supper. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/112 "2011-12-09T00:47:14Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I think that was kind of my point too. Confession: I skim-read your post and thought you wrote “I find him too sympathetic” rather than “I too find him sympathetic” that you actually wrote. Oops. Thanks anyway **ianzin**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/113 "2011-12-09T23:01:36Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I think he actually says “\*Surrey \*had to get 33”. The match, then, would have been India vs. Surrey rather than a test match (the Oval being Surrey’s home ground, of course). It makes more sense than saying that Gavaskar would have to get 33, and anyway it sounds like the Major is talking about a long time previously. Yes, that makes more sense. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Charley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/97f17d/32.png) [@Charley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charley)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/114 "2011-12-10T09:19:33Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > Yes, that makes more sense. Thanks. Sadly, I don’t think it does. India, a national side, wouldn’t play Surrey, a local county side. I wouldn’t stick my neck out and say that it’s never happened - there may have been exhibition matches and so on, but it’s not normal. True, The Oval is Surrey’s home ground, but it’s also one of the venues for most international test series. It’s extremely unlikely to have been ‘Surrey’ in the quote. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/115 "2011-12-10T09:29:36Z")
> [@Charley](#): > > Sadly, I don’t think it does. India, a national side, wouldn’t play Surrey, a local county side. I wouldn’t stick my neck out and say that it’s never happened - there may have been exhibition matches and so on, but it’s not normal. True, The Oval is Surrey’s home ground, but it’s also one of the venues for most international test series. It’s extremely unlikely to have been ‘Surrey’ in the quote. They did play Surrey at the Oval in May 1959. [http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1959/IND\_IN\_ENG/IND\_SURREY\_13-15MAY1959.html](http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1959/IND_IN_ENG/IND_SURREY_13-15MAY1959.html) (Ah, the wonders of Google and the Internet!) I don’t know if it’s happened since then, but it’s conceivable that the Major was thinking of this match. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/116 "2011-12-10T09:39:20Z")
> [@Charley](#): > > Sadly, I don’t think it does. India, a national side, wouldn’t play Surrey, a local county side. I wouldn’t stick my neck out and say that it’s never happened - there may have been exhibition matches and so on, but it’s not normal. True, The Oval is Surrey’s home ground, but it’s also one of the venues for most international test series. It’s extremely unlikely to have been ‘Surrey’ in the quote. National sides play local sides **all the time** – when they are on tour, they use local sides for practice matches. They are called ‘tour matches’. If you look at the most recent India tour of England (2011), you will see that they played Somerset, Northants, Sussex, Kent and Leicestershire. See [here](http://cricketvillage.blogspot.com/2010/12/india-tour-of-england-2011-schedule.html). ---
**Author:** ![Charley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/97f17d/32.png) [@Charley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charley)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/117 "2011-12-10T09:48:30Z")
Ha-ha! I sit completely corrected then. As you were… ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000/118 "2011-12-10T09:52:39Z")
> [@Charley](#): > > Ha-ha! I sit completely corrected then. As you were… Maybe, if you’re lucky, next time they’ll play Hampshire and you can watch them at the Rose Bowl 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fawlty-towers-ep-the-germans-took-her-to-see-india/605000.md?page=5)