# Fax machines **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219 "2016-01-05T15:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/21 "2016-01-06T17:49:35Z")
One thing I like about where I work is that we have digital faxes tied into our email, and I use it all the time. It works like this. My office phone number is (nnn)nnn-7526, and my personal fax number is (nnn)nnn-6526. Need to digitize a document? I fax it myself and it shows up in my email as a pdf. Need to submit expense receipts? I go to the copier/fax machine and fax it to my number. Most recently, I called my optometrist to fax me my transactions from the past year for Flexible Spending Account reimbursement. I would say faxing in its original form is indeed obsolete. But it’s enormously useful in the way I use it. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/22 "2016-01-06T18:08:42Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Facsimile is far more trivial to collect, categorize and store compared than voice. In todays world where almost all PBX systems are network based there should be no assumption about the security of a fax from both state and non-state actors. If anyone uses FAX with any assumption of security they are either misinformed or following some massively outdated security policy that was nothing more than security theater in the first place. Yes, that does make sense. I don’t write the security protocols, I just have to live with them. (Still, a fax is better than an unencrypted e-mail and getting the public to use encrypted e-mail has been even less successful than getting them to floss.) Especially dealing with the IRS, so many of their procedures are a little silly. Authenticating an electronic signature requires multiple steps to verify identity (SSN, password, public database questions, IP address), but if you fax in a page with a scribbled signature, you’re good to go with no verification. :smack: Furthermore, on an IRS Power of Attorney form, the signature is on a different page than the authorizations! So you can easily get a signature on the back page, then substitute whatever front page you like before you fax it. :smack::smack: ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/23 "2016-01-06T20:32:09Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > They are tangible, legally binding proof of things, something you actually **don’t** want in only electronic form just yet. And in the case of faxes, you can say “They are tangible, legally binding, and illegible proof of things.” I once had to deal with an organization that would only fax financial account information (like a large spreadsheet of data, maybe 8 or so pages long). Problem was they would print it out in 9 point type before faxing. Pretty much useless. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/24 "2016-01-06T20:58:14Z")
When I started at this office, we used to get two or three faxes a day. Now it’s an event when we get more than one a week. This may be due to the fact that, a couple of years ago, we finally got email. A couple of months ago, we switched to a VOIP system that including efaxing. So I just scan in anything that I want to fax, just like I would if I were emailing it. (Just as well: our old fax machine was starting to break down, and we didn’t want to spend the dough getting it fixed/replaced). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/25 "2016-01-06T21:11:31Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > They are tangible, legally binding proof of things, something you actually **don’t** want in only electronic form just yet. Legally speaking, there is really nothing more or less binding about a fax than any other reproduction. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/26 "2016-01-06T21:27:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pretty much every law office still uses one, though bigger ones are transitioning to e-fax services. Anyone who works with medical providers needs one because some jackass has been convincing them that faxes are a secure method of communication and will help them avoid HIPAA violations, and apparently nobody in medicine has an ounce of common sense. Even the practices I work with who are _otherwise paperless_ use fax machines. > > I’ve been trying to get my own firm to switch to an e-fax system for years. Yes, this. We have two very large medical centers here who, despite having electronic medical records systems, still require you to fax in a signed release if you want to send any of your test results to another provider. Why I can’t just log in to my account and electronically file a release, I dunno. And we can add realtors to the group, too. When I sold my dad’s house in 2014 my own realtor plus 2 of the 3 interested buyers’ realtors all used fax exclusively. The one who had switched to electronic document signing had only done so a few months prior, and remarked about how much easier it was. Our all-in-one printer failed recently and I had to go buy a new one. There was only one model available that still had fax capability. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/27 "2016-01-06T21:30:02Z")
Interesting tidbit on the legal validity of a faxed document. Decades ago, when I was in another career, I was auditing a company and having to validate certain records that were a couple of years old. This company kept all of their customer signed purchase orders on fax. Pulling out the boxes from the two years prior to examine some of these executed signed purchase orders, we discovered that faxes on heat transfer paper faded away after a few years. There was nothing to see. Oh the good ole days!! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/28 "2016-01-06T21:41:40Z")
Do good sized companies still have “fax machines”? The way to do it 20+ years ago was to route the phone line to a fax modem connected to a PC which took the incoming electronic document and saved it on the disk. Why would someone buy a much costlier device that required paper, ink and a _lot_ more service? And if you wanted an on-line copy, you’d have to scan the paper copy. Good grief, who would do that??? (Note there are companies out there that have “patents” to all this old and obvious way of doing things who try to shake down businesses, but they’re being stamped out and can be ignored.) The issue of “security” is ridiculous. There are trivial ways of securely signing and protecting emails that have been around a _long_ time. Far easier to do than going with any supposedly fax security add-on that most people haven’t even heard of, let alone use. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/29 "2016-01-06T23:51:48Z")
Some documents and forms require a signature. Faxes are useful for that. ---
**Author:** ![Aangelica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Aangelica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aangelica)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/30 "2016-01-07T00:04:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Legally speaking, there is really nothing more or less binding about a fax than any other reproduction. Interestingly, there are certain jurisdictions that specifically indicate (pursuant to the local rules of civil procedure) that faxing is considered adequate service, whereas some other methods (such as email, for example) are not considered adequate service absent specific agreement of the parties. Texas is one of them, if I recall correctly. This is the primary reason why the law firm I work for has a fax machine. Because we have some cases in Texas and if we want (for example) discovery responses to be considered timely provided, a fax complete notification is specifically referenced in the rule as adequate proof of that. Rules of civil procedure tend to be slow to change - and they list what _is_ considered adequate service and if something ain’t on the list, it doesn’t count. Faxing is much more convenient than (to take Texas as an example again) delivery of documents by hand or by human process server and more certain with regards to delivery date and time than U.S. Mail or FedEx/UPS (as well as a whole, whole lot cheaper than any of the above). Email is _not_ presently on the list (again, absent specific agreement). ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/31 "2016-01-07T00:15:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Legally speaking, there is really nothing more or less binding about a fax than any other reproduction. I didn’t mean that a faxed copy was necessarily legally binding (it often isn’t), just that a lot of original paper documents still are, therefore physical copies of them are still useful (therefore so are fax machines). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/32 "2016-01-07T00:20:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > By who? A fax is an unencrypted data transmission that winds up sitting in a print tray where it can be accessed by any random schmuck who walks by. It’s about as secure as posting something on a community message board with “please only read if you are Steve” at the top. > > An e-mail is (or at least can be) an encrypted transmission that winds up in a box that can only be accessed via password. > > Sure, hackers can read e-mail but they can also read the database that your credit card information will be entered into from the fax. My office has a Fax number slightly off from a number one might send sensitive financial info to. About once a month I get a misdirected Fax. I fax a note to the correct number, tell them to contact their client and promise to shred the fax I got. If I was unscrupulous I could have sensitive info on dozens of people by now. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/33 "2016-01-07T00:32:32Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > …promise to shred the fax I got. If you had contacted the Corporate Security department at a previous employer of mine, they probably would have threatened legal action if you didn’t immediately fax it back to them. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/34 "2016-01-07T00:36:02Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > If you had contacted the Corporate Security department at a previous employer of mine, they probably would have threatened legal action if you didn’t immediately fax it back to them. But then I’d still have my copy… Or is that a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/35 "2016-01-07T00:42:15Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > But then I’d still have my copy… > > Or is that a whoosh? It was a comment on a certain large corporation’s corporate security department whose stupidity and arrogance knew no bounds. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219/36 "2016-01-07T00:54:04Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > It was a comment on a certain large corporation’s corporate security department whose stupidity and arrogance knew no bounds. Ok, good. I briefly thought I had done something wrong, but it made no sense! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fax-machines/742219.md?page=1)