# FBI breaks up alleged Russian spy ring **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859 "2010-06-28T23:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/21 "2010-06-30T21:43:25Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Not really. The last people put to death for Espionage in the US were the Rosenburgs, in 1953. Its still technically a capital offense, but it doesn’t appear anyone actually get puts to death for it anymore. IIRC espionage is only punishable by death; during wartime, if it leads to the death of a US agent, or if nuclear secrets are involved. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/22 "2010-06-30T22:16:09Z")
I don’t quite understand the law they’re being charged under. What does being an “agent” of a foreign government mean? If they aren’t obtaining classified information, what is the difference between espionage and just plain research? Is it the false identities? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/23 "2010-06-30T22:34:17Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > I don’t quite understand the law they’re being charged under. What does being an “agent” of a foreign government mean? If they aren’t obtaining classified information, what is the difference between espionage and just plain research? Is it the false identities? [18 U.S.C. 794](http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/37/794) says it is a crime, punishable by death, to deliver to a foreign government or military “any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, note, instrument, appliance, or information relating to the national defense,” provided it is done " with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation." It needn’t be classified information. [18 U.S. 793](http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/37/793) applies any person who “goes upon, enters, flies over, or otherwise obtains information concerning any vessel, aircraft, work of defense, navy yard, naval station, submarine base, fueling station, fort, battery, torpedo station, dockyard, canal, railroad, arsenal, camp, factory, mine, telegraph, telephone, wireless, or signal station, building, office, research laboratory or station or other place connected with the national defense owned or constructed, or in progress of construction by the United States or under the control of the United States.” You can get up to 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/24 "2010-06-30T22:57:28Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Sorry but that’s not funny any more coming from an American. Unfortunate connotation . . . :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/25 "2010-06-30T23:06:32Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Great, another blow to the economy. These good tax-paying people supporting the economy through rents, home purchases, computer and cellphone buying are now virtual wards of the state. Who’s going to pay for their incarceration? We are - real Americans! > > They weren’t hurting anyone. Our FBI agents were getting good invaluable training at old spycraft stuff. All our old agents who knew this stuff are retiring. The new kids only know electronic gadgets and spy sattelites. > > I’m putting this down to the current hysteria about illegal immigrants. I can just see Arizona ginning up some new law against spying, " 'cause the Feds aren’t doing enough". Fine, let them decimate their states economy. Well played, I salute you. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/26 "2010-07-01T00:37:52Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > I don’t quite understand the law they’re being charged under. What does being an “agent” of a foreign government mean? If they aren’t obtaining classified information, what is the difference between espionage and just plain research? Is it the false identities? The [Foreign Agents Registration Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act) dates back to 1938, and was originally aimed at Nazi and Communist agents operating in the U.S. The “foreign agents” in question aren’t _secret_ agents, just persons acting on behalf of foreign governments or foreign organizations. It’s not _illegal_ to be a foreign agent in the sense FARA uses the term, but you have to register with the Attorney General– lots of respectable Washington lawyers and lobbyists register with the U.S. Justice Department as “foreign agents” on behalf of foreign clients (foreign governments or companies or associations from outside the United States). If you don’t register, but nonetheless engage in the activities described in the law, you can be fined and/or imprisoned. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/27 "2010-07-01T00:45:00Z")
Since someone’s gonna say it: “Anna Chapman” (or whatever her name really is) = total babe. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/28 "2010-07-01T04:30:40Z")
[And then there were ten](http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/30/russian.spying.arrests/index.html?hpt=T2) … > [@](#): > > A suspected Russian spy is missing after being arrested in Cyprus and released on bail, a police spokesman told CNN on Wednesday. > > - snip - > > Police said he was released on bail pending further proceedings but was told not to leave the country and was ordered to check in nightly with police. He did not check in Wednesday, and police are searching for him, a spokesman said. > > - snip - > > His disappearance came two days after the U.S. Justice Department announced the arrest of 10 people on charges of being Russian agents involved in a long-term mission in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/29 "2010-07-01T12:41:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I would presume the CIA still has some field agents in Russia, or at least some Russians who are “assets” with CIA handlers. If any of them were caught and arrested, would that play out any differently than this? I’d be shocked if in the coming days or weeks there weren’t some well publicized arrests, a tit for tat move to insure an equal distribution of embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/30 "2010-07-01T13:24:19Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Since someone’s gonna say it: > > “Anna Chapman” (or whatever her name really is) = total babe. “Soooooo hot, want to touch the heiny!” ---
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/31 "2010-07-01T14:02:27Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Also all the baroque methods of communication seem really bizarre and outdated. Why not just send encrypted emails via the internet rather then dropping stuff off in parks or having to follow your spies around in a van with a mobile wireless network. > > You’d think with decades of practice the Russians would be a little better at handling US spies. The primary goal of a spy is not to be found out as a Spy in the first place. Protecting the content of the messages is secondary. You don’t think the CIA notices when someone sends an encrypted email to a foreign address and has a little look to see who that person might be? Pretty easy way to give yourself away right there. The cafe thing was quite clever actually. Have one agent in the cafe, another nearby and connect via an ad-hoc network. You can happily encrypt that connection and there is no way any casual observer would notice it. If you weren’t silly and avoided going to the same location on a regular schedule (as they did) you might even evade people actively looking. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/32 "2010-07-01T14:42:59Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Great, another blow to the economy. These good tax-paying people supporting the economy through rents, home purchases, computer and cellphone buying are now virtual wards of the state. Who’s going to pay for their incarceration? We are - real Americans! > > They weren’t hurting anyone. Our FBI agents were getting good invaluable training at old spycraft stuff. All our old agents who knew this stuff are retiring. The new kids only know electronic gadgets and spy sattelites. > > I’m putting this down to the current hysteria about illegal immigrants. I can just see Arizona ginning up some new law against spying, " 'cause the Feds aren’t doing enough". Fine, let them decimate their states economy. Don’t worry. I understand that Rep. Joe Barton is readying a contrite apology to these upstanding citizens for the harassment they were subjected to by the Obama Administration. But he is only speaking for himself, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/33 "2010-07-01T17:38:15Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > The primary goal of a spy is not to be found out as a Spy in the first place. Protecting the content of the messages is secondary. > > You don’t think the CIA notices when someone sends an encrypted email to a foreign address and has a little look to see who that person might be? Pretty easy way to give yourself away right there. No need to use a “foreign address”. Just email it to a domestic host. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/34 "2010-07-02T13:47:07Z")
So I see that this Chapman woman ([this is clearly the best photo of her](http://i.imgur.com/lJUk6.jpg)) turned herself into the police rather than turn up to a meeting where she was the be busted, or entrapped, for being a “spy”. And she was in Britain until 2008, hence the non-Russian surname. Then she ended up hobnobbing with Warren Buffet in America. There was a short on Daily Mash, something along the lines of “Spies arrested for reading Newsweek and telling the Russians what’s in it”, and that’s about the size of it. Now, I’m going to look at that picture a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/35 "2010-07-02T13:54:36Z")
[Chapman has been charged with one count of refusing to accept a fake passport from an undercover FBI agent and one count of having the kind of dirty-pretty face that suggests she may know those sexual positions previously believed to be mythical.](http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/anna-chapman-also-has-fantastic-tits%2c-claims-fbi-201007022871/) ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/36 "2010-07-02T14:02:39Z")
> [@Baboonanza](#): > > The cafe thing was quite clever actually. Have one agent in the cafe, another nearby and connect via an ad-hoc network. You can happily encrypt that connection and there is no way any casual observer would notice it. If you weren’t silly and avoided going to the same location on a regular schedule (as they did) you might even evade people actively looking. Wouldn’t it have been safer and just as simple to use a VPN? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/37 "2010-07-02T16:15:46Z")
Well, the new _Daily Show_ correspondent who reported this story is kinda hot, so I guess it’s not a total loss. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/38 "2010-07-03T02:11:33Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#): > > Well played, I salute you. Thanks, I thought I’d stumbled into a, “No Bombast, No Tsarchasm” thread.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/39 "2010-07-03T02:51:38Z")
Yeah I don’t get how they were caught either. I have TrueCrypt encrytpion on my computer and it is at a level the NSA could not crack. Encryption is easy ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859/40 "2010-07-03T05:34:40Z")
I don’t get why they were pulled, especially as the charges amount to 5 years max. They had absolutely nothing worth knowing - after 15-20 years in situ. But I love the talking heads on tv telling us there might be hundreds more of these sleepers from different countries. I’m starting to think this might be mostly about the FBI itself and, perhaps more generally, protecting financial budgets for organisations concerned with domestic activities. Would it be outrageous if the FBI selected a cell to expose that wouldn’t damage more worthwhile operations yet, at the same time, had a pretty face to guarantee media attention . . . A little promo for the hard-working domestic service in this difficult financial environment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-breaks-up-alleged-russian-spy-ring/544859.md?page=3)