# FBI released memo about Roswell crash **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899 "2011-04-10T21:06:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/1 "2011-04-10T21:06:37Z")
> **[New FBI 'vault' discusses Utah UFOs, other secrets](https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=51593226&itype=CMSID)** > > On April 4, 1949, FBI agents in Utah sent a cable marked FBI Agent Guy Hottel: > [@](#): > > “They were described as being circular in shape with raised centers, approximately 50 feet in diameter. Each one was occupied by three bodies of human shape but only 3 feet tall, dressed in metallic cloth of a very fine texture. Each body was bandaged in a manner similar to the blackout suits used by speed flyers and test pilots” [http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/132521/20110410/ufo-fbi-secret-memo-flying-saucer-disc-1947-roswell-new-mexico-1947-landing-aliens-dead-bodies-crash.htm](http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/132521/20110410/ufo-fbi-secret-memo-flying-saucer-disc-1947-roswell-new-mexico-1947-landing-aliens-dead-bodies-crash.htm) > [@](#): > > Initially the military released a statement saying the rumors concerning alien sightings in New Mexico has turned out real with the crash of the flying disc. > > “The many rumours regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence officer of the 509th Bomb Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc,” the military statement said. > > Rumors flew thick and fast that the U.S. military had captured aliens who frequently visited the area, fuelling fears of aliens and theories about alien invasion. What raises my interest is that they backtracked on their original story. Liars backtrack. Of course, whatever they’re lying about could be of perfectly terrestrial origin. I’ve always been inclined to believe that no Earth government would be able to cover up concrete proof of a civilization that is capable of interstellar travel-- but even taking that into consideration, this case is now more interesting to me than it has ever been. The memo (I couldn’t get it to load, but my friend did, so I think the problem is on my end): [http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel\_guy/Guy%20Hottel%20Part%201%20of%201/view](http://vault.fbi.gov/hottel_guy/Guy%20Hottel%20Part%201%20of%201/view) Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/2 "2011-04-10T21:25:05Z")
The memo isn’t first hand in any way. A lot of things get confused over distance and time, the memo was dated in 1950, but the event happened in 1947? I’ve always heard that everything involving silver discs around Roswell was related to Project Mogul. What probably happened is someone saw a crashed vehicle from Project Mogul with crash dummies inside (maybe small, human-shaped crash dummies.) The officer who observed it wasn’t necessarily supposed to, but as often happens with secret projects in the military, not everyone is going to be privy to it. It’s entirely possible someone who was part of RAAF saw a crashed test vehicle from Project Mogul who wasn’t supposed to see it, saw some dummies and made conclusions. The people running Project Mogul weren’t about to clear things up, that would have violated the law and served no purpose. If it had been bigger news at the time, it probably would have come out to allay public concerns. Since Roswell _wasn’t_ really big news until some 25+ years after the fact (in the 70s), by that time it was easy to just dismiss the whole thing as a hoax. Since it was but a blip in the news and quickly explained as a weather balloon, and because in 1947 no one dug deeper and the public mostly never even knew it happened, things became mysterious. If, for some reason the crash **had** been a huge deal in 1947, I think there would be far less mystery today. If it had become a sensation eventually someone higher up (maybe even Truman) would have said “fuck, just tell them it was an experimental military vehicle and end this.” ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/3 "2011-04-10T21:29:39Z")
The thread isn’t first hand either.[Same thing from two days ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=603867). 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/4 "2011-04-11T05:13:22Z")
I think it’s hilarious that the Salt Lake Tribune article seems to find the saucer-alien revelation on a par with the FBI investigation of W. Cleon Skousen, reported tea party icon. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/5 "2011-04-11T17:34:32Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The memo isn’t first hand in any way. A lot of things get confused over distance and time, the memo was dated in 1950, but the event happened in 1947? I’ve always heard that everything involving silver discs around Roswell was related to Project Mogul. What probably happened is someone saw a crashed vehicle from Project Mogul with crash dummies inside (maybe small, human-shaped crash dummies.) The officer who observed it wasn’t necessarily supposed to, but as often happens with secret projects in the military, not everyone is going to be privy to it. It’s entirely possible someone who was part of RAAF saw a crashed test vehicle from Project Mogul who wasn’t supposed to see it, saw some dummies and made conclusions. The people running Project Mogul weren’t about to clear things up, that would have violated the law and served no purpose. > > If it had been bigger news at the time, it probably would have come out to allay public concerns. Since Roswell _wasn’t_ really big news until some 25+ years after the fact (in the 70s), by that time it was easy to just dismiss the whole thing as a hoax. Since it was but a blip in the news and quickly explained as a weather balloon, and because in 1947 no one dug deeper and the public mostly never even knew it happened, things became mysterious. If, for some reason the crash **had** been a huge deal in 1947, I think there would be far less mystery today. If it had become a sensation eventually someone higher up (maybe even Truman) would have said “fuck, just tell them it was an experimental military vehicle and end this.” The story that a flying saucer crashed was a big story when it happened. It was released over the wire services and appeared in newspapers all over the country,. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/6 "2011-04-11T23:20:38Z")
_crinkle_ _crinkle_ That’s the sound of me making my tinfoil hat! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/7 "2011-04-11T23:23:30Z")
Obviously, mr “human” after all, you are a plant here to make us think that the whole situation is nutty. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/8 "2011-04-11T23:26:13Z")
Do NOT mock the Tinhat Society! Our tin is crinkly and mighty! ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/9 "2011-04-11T23:36:34Z")
The [“Ramey” memo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzvwsOWAK0M)? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/10 "2011-04-12T01:09:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Thoughts? Meh…same ole same ole. For one thing, as has been pointed out, it was 3 years after the ‘event’. For another thing, reading the memo (even assuming it’s legit), it’s a 2nd or 3rd hand account (the writer is talking about a Mr. \'s informant. Since we can’t tell the validity of Mr. blacked out or his informant, it’s all BS as far as I’m concerned. It sounds to me as if this is a memo that’s discussing the conflation of the Project Mogul crash and subsequent events concerning test dummies (who WERE dressed in flight suits) that were dropped in high altitude testing that also happened in the area during that time frame. I’m not seeing any sort of smoking gun here, to be honest. > [@](#): > > What raises my interest is that they backtracked on their original story. Liars backtrack. Of course, whatever they’re lying about could be of perfectly terrestrial origin. I’ve always been inclined to believe that no Earth government would be able to cover up concrete proof of a civilization that is capable of interstellar travel-- but even taking that into consideration, this case is now more interesting to me than it has ever been. But we know there was a cover up. It was a cover up of a highly top secret program called Project Mogul, and they lied to protect that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/11 "2011-04-12T07:36:51Z")
Spam reported. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/12 "2011-04-12T07:38:24Z")
For the lazy ones, I’ll just copy my posts from the other thread – the short of it, it’s got nothing to do with Roswell, but rather stems from an eighth hand report of a scam related to a magical oil finding device allegedly cribbed from flying saucer remains. Here’s what I dug up: > [@April Fools joke or Roswell confirmation?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-fools-joke-or-roswell-confirmation/577638/4): > > Anyway, as for the memo, it’s also mentioned in Bruce Maccabee’s 2000 book _UFO/FBI Connection_: > [ > [QUOTE=Maccabee] > In late March, 1950, FBI headquarters received from Guy Hottel, the SAC for Washington state, a memorandum which stated that “an investigator for the Air Forces” had told Mr. Hottel that three crashed saucers had been recovered in New Mexico, along with 9 bodies of 3 foot tall aliens. It turned out that this report was based on a hoax, […] ]([UFO FBI Connection: The Secret History of the Government's Cover-up - Bruce Maccabee - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=KVz-o44Zs7wC&pg=PA167&lpg=PA167&dq=Bruce+Maccabee+Guy+Hottel&source=bl&ots=a3nwBYfylb&sig=e27lReX9VX1tDTmM3EV-jYegDs8&hl=en&ei=J_6eTY74Jsf0sgb1k5z3AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Hottel&f=false)) Oh, there’s more [here](http://www.nmsr.org/aztec.htm): [ > [@](#): > > On May 31st and June 1st, 1998, on the nationally-syndicated radio programs Dreamland and The Art Bell Show, noted UFO researcher Linda Moulton Howe described a secret FBI memo from March 22nd, 1950, written to J. Edgar Hoover himself. Memo author Guy Hottel, of SAC, described an investigator’s report of a flying saucer recovery in New Mexico, with mention of three saucers, three-foot tall bodies, metallic cloth, and bandaged alien bodies. The crash was supposedly due to interference from high-powered radar. But all of these elements (saucers, aliens, cloth and tape, radar site) have been firmly traced to the yarns spun by our two swindlers! William Moore even traced how the story got from Silas Newton to J. Edgar Hoover: Newton told George Koehler (employed at radio station KMYR in Denver), who told Morley Davies, who told Ford dealers Murphy and van Horn, who told auto dealer Fick, who told the editor of the Kansas City Wyandotte Echo. By that time, Koehler had become “Coulter,” just like a game of “gossip” (or a game of “pi”)! This article was picked up in the news, where it caught the interest of the OSI. The OSI agent passed the story on to Guy Hottel of the FBI, and he gave the 8th-hand story to Hoover. ]([http://www.nmsr.org/aztec.htm](http://www.nmsr.org/aztec.htm)) [/QUOTE] > [@April Fools joke or Roswell confirmation?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/april-fools-joke-or-roswell-confirmation/577638/5): > > It (apparently known as the ‘Aztec UFO hoax’) made the [skeptic’s dictionary](http://www.skepdic.com/aztec.html), too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-released-memo-about-roswell-crash/577899/13 "2011-04-12T10:11:32Z")
> [@Lord\_Mondegreen](#): > > Spam reported. Spam removed.