# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 135
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2681 "2022-09-08T18:49:24Z")
Some thoughts re: appealing Judge’s decisions (or a guilty verdict). Zooming out, it’s really difficult. The reason is the Supreme Court. If appealed (or _when_ if we’re talking a guilty verdict), you have to know the SC will hear the case and you have to know they will be favorable to Trump. It’s Bush v Gore on steroids. This is why the trial Judge can do what she likes (ordering things that were never even asked of her), she knows she won’t ultimately get overturned. While Trump’s arguments/future arguments will be bonkers, the DOJ should consider the likelihood of losing and making bonkers precedent. Still probably do it, but there’s a lot of ways this ends bad/worse down the road, even when everyone is cheering criminal charges, guilty verdict, or appealing a Judge’s “bad” decision, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2682 "2022-09-08T18:50:22Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > the queen has passed. Expect a rant from Trump, she did it deliberately to make him look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2683 "2022-09-08T18:50:52Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Or, do we wait because indicting him now will rile up his base, causing more of them to vote. If Trump isn’t indicted until _after_ the elections, we may get a higher percentage of sane votes. Actually, I think indicting him now (or, hehe, around Halloween) might sabotage a lot more of “his” candidates. But as I’ve said before, DOJ should not be playing politics with this and IMO should disregard the election entirely. Indict him the second you believe you have enough evidence to convict, and do whatever it takes to minimize the damage he can do to our national security. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2684 "2022-09-08T18:53:58Z")
“Elizabeth? Never heard of her. Maybe I took a picture with her once. I take a LOT of pictures with a LOT of people. Maybe she brought me coffee once.” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2685 "2022-09-08T18:59:40Z")
Nah, he’ll just make it all about him. “Wonderful lady. I remember meeting her when I went to England before the election was stolen from me. And she told me how much she loved my golf courses and what wonderful things I was doing for her and for England. You’re one of the best Presidents America has had, she told me.” ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2686 "2022-09-08T19:14:11Z")
Do we know if Trump had SCIFs at any of his other properties? If he did, would that shore up the probable cause for searching them? How about if the National Archives can show they are still missing documents that were last known to be in Trump’s possession? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2687 "2022-09-08T19:25:04Z")
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**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2688 "2022-09-08T19:27:02Z")
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**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2689 "2022-09-08T19:52:34Z")
[DOJ’s gonna appeal.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/08/justice-appeals-trump-documents-special-master/) > [@](#): > > The Justice Department said it would appeal a federal judge’s decision to appoint a special master to sift through thousands of documents the FBI seized from Donald Trump’s Florida residence on Aug. 8, according to a Thursday court filing. > > The notice of appeal arrived three days after Judge Aileen M. Cannon [ruled in favor of Trump and said](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/05/trump-special-master-documents/?itid=lk_inline_manual_4) she would appoint a special master, slowing — at least temporarily — an investigation into the possible mishandling of extremely sensitive classified information, as well as possible hiding, tampering or destruction of government records. > > The Justice Department wrote in a brief filing that it would be appealing the decision to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2690 "2022-09-08T19:58:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …11th Circuit Court of Appeals… What is the makeup of judges on this court, trumpist v. normal? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2691 "2022-09-08T20:04:03Z")
Not good. I think it’s 6 Trumpists to 5 real judges. ETA: corrected number of judges. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2692 "2022-09-08T20:14:48Z")
Shit. This is going to take decades. And that’s just what Trump wants. That, or being elected is his only way out. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2693 "2022-09-08T20:19:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > How do you know the folders had documents in them? Others Dopers who have personal experience with classified documents have posted up-thread that folders and cover sheets can be kept in supply cabinets, or just photocopied. And, documents can be taken out of the covers, and returned to the person doing the briefing, or shredded, or sold (worst case), or stolen by foreign agents after their round of golf (worster case). > > How do you know that he stole documents, rather than it just being an accident when moving? How do you know that the documents are at B or C? DOJ can’t just get a warrant to cover every property that the target owns. That’s a fishing trip, and not allowed. There has to be something substantial to support the conclusion that the documents will be at B or C. Maybe testimony from another golfer, who says that the target showed them the docs. Or testimony from housekeeping, who say them on the target’s desk regularly. Or testimony from someone who thinks they’re at risk from their personal involvement, and are willing to flip. DOJ needs something more than “docs are missing, and he owns property at B or C, so give us permission to search B and C.” ⁢ We know it wasn’t a mistake because he was told about the mistake, claimed he returned them all, but then kept some. We know that there were actual documents in at least some of the folders, because the contents of some of those documents have been (obliquely) reported on, and those contents are bad. And while we don’t have enough public info to determine if the empty folders contained documents, surely this information exists. There would be an inventory of every copy made, and each copy would surely be watermarked to identify if it got out. If those are not accounted for, then they are missing. The only problem seems to be a requirement to have someone actually have seen him handling the documents. But is that really a requirement? Police go in and investigate places all the time without having someone saying they saw something in there. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2694 "2022-09-08T20:24:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [DOJ’s gonna appeal.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/08/justice-appeals-trump-documents-special-master/) I don’t see what this will accomplish. Even if there is some worrying part of her ruling, precedent is not set by a low level judge’s ruling. Any other judge who tried to use it as precedent could then be appealed. And having the special master just delays us a few weeks to months, while going through the appeal process could take forever, and result in the Supreme Court siding with Trump. The whole point of Trump filing to the court was to cause delays. It seems dumb to help them achieve that when you have other options. Unless they really are playing politics, and want Trump to be able to run in 2024, on the theory that this will once again drive voter turn out and help defeat him. Anyone have any counterarguments that might justify this decision? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2695 "2022-09-08T20:28:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > don’t see what this will accomplish. Right, but the top attorney at DOJ do. Perhaps their appeal will make their reasons clear, and I’m okay waiting for their rationale. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2696 "2022-09-08T20:32:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Anyone have any counterarguments that might justify this decision? The DOJ believes that the special master decision was wrong, and their recourse is to appeal the decision? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2697 "2022-09-08T20:34:15Z")
The Cts of App and Supremes are capable of acting quite quickly when they wish. Might not be a huge delay - possibly shorter than the time a special master would take. IMO, it is worth making the attempt to shut this Cannon down. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2698 "2022-09-08T20:47:34Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Not good. I think it’s 6 Trumpists to 5 real judges. I’m counting 5? Hon. Kevin C. Newsom Hon. Elizabeth L. Branch Hon. Britt C. Grant Hon. Robert J. Luck Hon. Barbara Lagoa Everyone else is before 2016 or after Jan 20, 2020. And, that said, to it’s not like Trump had good outcomes on his “stolen election” thing with his own appointees. He hired people from the Federalist Society. They believe in greater States Rights, greater Executive Rights, and greater obeyance to the exact wording of the law. Trump figured it was a group of corrupt judges for people with an R after their name and didn’t do any due diligence. Maybe he knew something about Cannon - as a local to his area - I don’t know but, in general, the guy didn’t put in the work it would take to get the sort of results that you’re fearing. Malevolence well-tempered by incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2699 "2022-09-08T20:51:19Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m counting 5? Brasher. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2700 "2022-09-08T21:00:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Everyone else is before 2016 or after Jan 20, 2020. Trump was president until 1/20/21. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=134) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=136)