# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 145
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2881 "2022-09-16T17:58:58Z")
The “purely private record” is from the opinion you linked, not from you directly - and should have been “materials” not “records”. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2882 "2022-09-16T19:58:47Z")
Orange Julius Caesar. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2883 "2022-09-16T21:14:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Basically, the Archivist should be the “special master”. Absolutely. This is extremely sensible. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2884 "2022-09-16T21:48:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > [@Zakalwe](#): > > > > stuff classified or produced by the government cannot be a purely private record and thus cannot be withheld from the current Executive if “such records contain information that is needed for the conduct of current business of the incumbent President’s office and that is not otherwise available” - ensuring that the law is followed is, of course, the current business of the incumbent President. ⁢ > > 1. You’re free to point out where I used the words “private record”. I don’t disagree but it’s irrelevant to anything that I said. > 2. And in general, I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. But what you wrote doesn’t conflict with what I said. ⁢ There clearly is a conflict, as the result of your post would be that there is a possibility that Trump does own some of the documents and that this needs to be determined, while the other person is arguing the exact opposite. The thing is, the other guy has the legal experts on their side, saying that all of these rulings are bad law. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2885 "2022-09-16T21:56:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > There clearly is a conflict, as the result of your post would be that there is a possibility that Trump does own some of the documents and that this needs to be determined, while the other person is arguing the exact opposite. To my knowledge, Trump has made no claim of ownership. Nor have I and nor has Cannon. Or, at least, you’re free to point out the place where someone made the claim. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2886 "2022-09-16T21:58:54Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Absolutely. This is extremely sensible. Which is eggs-ZACKLY why it could never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2887 "2022-09-16T22:38:45Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > To my knowledge, Trump has made no claim of ownership. Yeah he has. > **[Trump’s ‘Muddled’ Claims About the Presidential Records Act, Explained...](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/us/politics/trump-presidential-records-act.html)** > > The former president’s legal team keeps invoking a 1978 law as a basis for various assertions in the dispute over the seized files he was hoarding. > Among their assertions, Mr. Trump’s lawyers have claimed that he could have deemed the most disputed documents — more than 100 records marked as classified — as his own personal property, the National Archives could not second-guess him, and even courts would have “very limited judicial oversight over such categorization.” He and his lawyers insist they are his personal property. He’s been saying that for quite a while now. Here is an older article. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-01/trump-accuses-doj-of-criminalizing-his-possession-of-documents](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-01/trump-accuses-doj-of-criminalizing-his-possession-of-documents) > Former President Donald Trump accused the Justice Department of “criminalizing” his possession of personal documents by investigating the presence of hundreds of highly classified White House records at his Mar-a-Lago estate. > Trump’s lawyers made the broad argument that the Presidential Records Act allows a president to take whatever document he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2888 "2022-09-17T00:26:05Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > He is ordered to be done with the review by November 30th Yes. That’s no guarantee of anything, however: Cannon has given herself the “right” to remove Dearie at any time, without any visible reason. She could remove him November 29, then decree a process to have new potential Special Masters nominated, then at some time in the future, chosen (by her), then that new SM could be fired at any time–for no reason. > [@](#): > > … **Cannon’s stated predisposition in the matter is problematic for another reason. There’s boilerplate that appears at the end of Special Master appointments. This is Trump’s version (DOJ’s version has stronger language about a protective order).** > > 1. The Special Master will be discharged or replaced only upon order of this Court. > > 2. The parties and their agents and employees will observe faithfully the requirements of this Order of Appointment and cooperate fully with the Special Master in the performance of their duties. > > 3. The parties and their agents and employees will observe faithfully the requirements of this Order of Appointment, cooperate fully with the Special Master in the performance of their duties, and comply with the judicial protective order that shall follow – which will set forth restrictions on the disclosure by any person with access to Seized Materials and any documents generated in connection with this Order of Appointment. > > _18. The Court reserves the right to remove the Special Master if the Court finds that the parties are not expeditiously completing this work._ … > > **But in her order, Cannon replaced the boilerplate about removing the Special Master if things are not moving along with language that gives her authority to remove him unbound by any specific reason.** > > _17. The Special Master shall be discharged or replaced only upon order of this Court. The Court reserves the right to remove the Special Master._ > > 1. The parties and their agents and employees shall faithfully observe the requirements of this Order and fully cooperate with the Special Master in the performance of their duties. > > 2. Consistent with and in furtherance of this Order, the Court will separately enter a judicial protective order that sets forth restrictions on disclosure for both the Special Master and the parties, and any agents or employees thereof. The parties shall submit a proposed protective order within five (5) calendar days following the date of this Order. [my emphasis] > > **In other words, the same judge who has unilaterally decided that she can override government determinations about classification and Executive Privilege has also reserved for herself the right to replace Dearie for no reason.** … (My bolding and italics.) The delays will stretch out into many months, no matter what Dearie does. > **[Aileen Cannon's Special Master Is Designed to Preempt Decisions Reserved for...](https://www.emptywheel.net/2022/09/16/aileen-cannons-special-master-is-designed-to-preempt-decisions-reserved-for-a-jury/)** > > A number of details about Judge Aileen Cannon's plans for a Special Master provide ways to pre-empt decisions a jury in a Trump trial would make. (Links to the quoted doc and other relevant documents are on the site.) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2889 "2022-09-17T00:39:51Z")
And it’s possible that Trump/Cannon have built in a reason to remove Dearie. Dearie signed off on the Carter Page FISA application. What are the chances that some of documents that the FBI seized from Mar-a-lago have something to do with the Carter Page FISA? This is an easy fig leaf for Cannon to dismiss Dearie at any point where dismissing him will benefit team Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2890 "2022-09-17T00:59:01Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > He and his lawyers insist they are his personal property. The article is paywalled so I’m not sure that I’m referencing the correct [filing](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22279292-trump-response-to-stay) but I’d read it less as “It’s mine” and more as “I’m a lawyer with an idiot as a client, and I am being asked to make explicit, itemized claims on a per-document basis by the US government, but cannot do so because my client has no idea what was seized. But my not knowing what’s there doesn’t change the fact that, in theory, there may be substantive claims on the basis of X, Y, and Z that _should_ be made.” One of those claims would come from the definition of a “private record” under [44 U.S. Code § 2201](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/44/2201). In theory, the government may have judged that a thing falls under the PRA that it should not have. Trump’s daily diary should NOT show up in the US government public document catalog, because he wrote it on paper with a White House letterhead. While that might not affect whether segments of the diary are used in his trial, it is a unique concern for a former President that a usual criminal does not have. A usual criminal expects that his private materials will be quoted from minimally in court and then either returned to him, destroyed, or kept in a secure facility that no one can access. They don’t have a concern that it goes straight to a library shelf, open to any tabloid reporter in the land. Trump needs to be able to make the claim even if it doesn’t get him the documents back. They are his private records and should not be subject to the PRA. It is a meaningful and necessary claim that his lawyers conceivably might need to make, and that does merit special consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2891 "2022-09-17T01:19:01Z")
DOJ has filed a motion requesting a stay of Judge Cannon’s order pending appeal. Link to Politico hosted copy of filing: [https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-48f7-dd78-adb3-6dff488e0000](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-48f7-dd78-adb3-6dff488e0000) ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2892 "2022-09-17T01:26:02Z")
Well, it was a fun scandal while it lasted. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2893 "2022-09-17T01:59:12Z")
Thanks for posting the link. If Cannon read that motion, her face should have melted. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2894 "2022-09-17T02:46:28Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > DOJ has filed a motion requesting a stay of Judge Cannon’s order pending appeal. > > Link to Politico hosted copy of filing: [https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-48f7-dd78-adb3-6dff488e0000](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000183-48f7-dd78-adb3-6dff488e0000) Thanks for this! I hadn’t seen the news before I saw it here. The beginning part, where it names people and entities interested in the outcome…I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that before. I’ve never noticed it before, at any rate. Lots of news channels and newspapers (didn’t see Fox on there, though!) along with lawyers and politicians. What’s that about? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2895 "2022-09-17T03:28:40Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > What’s that about? Presumably part of the ‘public interest’ argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2896 "2022-09-17T03:50:21Z")
Yeah, in the hearing before Reinhardt about unsealing the affidavit, a bunch of news organizations pled their case. Essentially arguing public interest. I’d guess this is similar, or maybe even those same news organizations are the ones listed in this motion. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2897 "2022-09-17T04:00:36Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > To my knowledge, Trump has made no claim of ownership. If Trump is not claiming ownership, why did he ask for the appointment of a special master to return some of the documents to him? ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2898 "2022-09-17T04:03:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > To my knowledge, Trump has made no claim of ownership. > > If Trump is not claiming ownership, why did he ask for the appointment of a special master to return some of the documents to him… Delay tactic. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2899 "2022-09-17T04:05:28Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > If Cannon read that motion, her face should have melted. Maybe by his lawyers, I think the orange-faced one actually thinks he owns the documents. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/2900 "2022-09-17T04:07:53Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Delay tactic. Nothing more. I meant the question rhetorically. Trump’s request for a special master to return some documents to him amounts to a _de facto_, if not _de jure_, claim of ownership of those documents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=144) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=146)