# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 178
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3541 "2022-10-05T18:12:55Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > … > I also thought I read something that said one of Trump’s arguments was that the 11th Circuit did not have jurisdiction to overrule Cannon’s decision. Which I find hilarious since Cannon had no jurisdiction in the first place. > > So basically, do I have to worry about Thomas unilaterally ruling in favor of Trump? Or is this just another hail mary that’s going to land with a thud outside the back of the end zone? IANAL and I find it difficult to follow this stuff. As I understand it, Team Trump is claiming that the 11th Circuit does not have jurisdiction over Judge Cannon’s instructions to the Special Master, which include the “documents with classified markings” (DWCM) in the scope of his review. That it, it isn’t that the DOJ cannot appeal to the 11th Circuit on the Judge’s order to appoint a SM (which AFAIK they can), but that they can’t appeal the instructions given that SM. I think the Team Trump’s argument is basically that the stay should be vacated because the 11th Circuit doesn’t have the jurisdiction to tell a district court to modify her instructions. They can vacate the order for the SM, but not what the SM is told to do, or something like that. There may be something here, but I doubt this is a good example of the legal question that is the heart of the matter. In short, my understanding that Thomas can accept the case on behalf of the court, which would get all Justices involved, or reject it, in which case it dies. I suspect the latter since I think the 11th Circuit will uphold the DOJ appeal in its entirety before the Supreme Court has a chance to consider Trump’s motion. The other option is that I am all washed up and none of this has any bearing on the issue at all… ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3542 "2022-10-05T18:46:38Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > One of the things we learned form this is that the ‘medical documents’ in the seized documents that Judge Cannon used as part of her reasoning to intervene on Trump’s behalf appear to be, in their entirety, the letter from Dr. Harold Bornstein that Trump publicly released in 2016. That’s it. From the [list of documents](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23118826/notice-of-status-of-filter-review-with-exhibits-a-and-b.pdf) helpfully linked to by Sage\_Rat in a[nother thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/january-6th-hearing-adjacent-discussion-thread/967829/476) There was also > Envelope containing Blue Cross Blue Shield > Explanation of Benefits for WG ’ post it note > “Molly talk to Aronwald” No idea who WG is or why Trump has their medical records. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3543 "2022-10-05T18:51:14Z")
WG=White Guy? ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3544 "2022-10-05T18:53:48Z")
Snerk. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3545 "2022-10-05T19:05:21Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Just so I have this clear in my head, the DOJ has two broad issues with what is happening in Judge Cannon’s court. > > 1. Assuming Cannon’s court is the proper place to hear these issues, DOJ has a problem with an Order she made / documents DOJ can use, etc. This consumes most of the discussion on this thread so far. > 2. Cannon’s court is not the proper place (ie, no jurisdiction). > > DOJ has appealed both those issues separately: > > 1. DOJ kind of “won” and Trump is appealing that to Sup Ct. > 2. DOJ appealed that and the 11th Cir appeal court just agreed to expedite the hearing. > > Is this ballpark accurate? If not, let me know so I can better follow what is going on. I don’t think that is quite accurate. It seems to me it is more like 1. DOJ disagreed with Judge Cannon’s order for a SM and appealed it to the 11th Circuit. Among the reasons for their disagreement is one of jurisdiction but also the idea that an ex-President can claim Executive Privilege over Presidential Documents. Biden had already refused Trump Executive Privilege, so other than Attorney/Client Privilege (which the DOJ had already addressed with their Taint Team) there is no reason for the SM. 2. While waiting for the Court to rule on the appeal, the DOJ asked for a temporary partial stay on that order. This was to speed things up. A partial stay, since they were seeking immediate relief on only a part of the order (that part which concerned the classified documents). And a temporary stay, because it would only be effective while the court as a whole was considering the appeal. This simplifies the request and allows a quicker ruling since only a part of the order being appealed needs to be considered and any decision on it becomes irrelevant once an opinion on the appeal is made. So, 2 is merely a subsection of 1, both of which the DOJ feels confident that their understanding of the law will prevail. As the 11th Circuit has now granted the DOJs request to expedite the appeal, I suspect we will have this chapter concluded soon, perhaps this week. Again, I am just a nobody and I could well be wrong… ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3546 "2022-10-05T19:24:13Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > As the 11th Circuit has now granted the DOJs request to expedite the appeal, I suspect we will have this chapter concluded soon, perhaps this week. Given how thoroughly the Eleventh Circuit demolished all of Cannon’s grounds for her orders in its interlocutory decision, I suspect you are correct, and it will not go well for Team Trump. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3547 "2022-10-05T19:25:46Z")
Thank you ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3548 "2022-10-05T19:36:29Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > > > As the 11th Circuit has now granted the DOJs request to expedite the appeal, I suspect we will have this chapter concluded soon, perhaps this week. > > Given how thoroughly the Eleventh Circuit demolished all of Cannon’s grounds for her orders in its interlocutory decision, I suspect you are correct, and it will not go well for Team Trump. I should have looked at Lance\_Turbo’s post a bit closer > [@FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-08-08-22/969329/3531): > > Judge Jordan grants DOJ request to expedite appeal of Cannon’s original order. The Order to Expedite gives Team Trump until November 10 (after the upcoming mid-term elections) to respond. So, we have a bit to wait. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3549 "2022-10-05T20:08:46Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > IANAL and I find it difficult to follow this stuff. Well, IAAL, and I admit this has gotten to a point where it is so damned confusion, I’m not even going to TRY to follow or understand it! I see 2 possibilities: Hopefully SOMEONE - hopefully the 11th - steps in and says this whole mess is outta control, and they try to make sense of the whole mess. Takes aggressive steps to have limited and understandable actions/motions before the appropriate decision maker. Unfortunately, what I expect is more likely, is that all of the various tribunals will keep issuing isolated, limited “Whack-a-mole” decisions, and TFG will keep flinging more shit at the walls. I cannot imagine any jurist wishing anything other than to distance themself from this mess. Wake me when it’s over! ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3550 "2022-10-05T20:24:28Z")
I am a lawyer and this is more confusing. I’d wager other lawyers would agree. You have: - Criminal - the magistrate and probable cause affidavit; investigating the actual crimes. - Civil - Trump as a civil Plaintiff filing a lawsuit in federal court against the DOJ and that splintering off with Special Masters, stays, Judges overriding Special Master, appeals, appealing the appeal. Yea, that’s a lot to follow procedurally much less understand the underlying arguments. And I’m probably missing some stuff. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3551 "2022-10-05T20:30:34Z")
I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it turns out that the reason Trump took all the documents to Mar-a-Lago was to bury the evidence that he uses Rogaine. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3552 "2022-10-05T20:32:18Z")
I lost the narrative a long time ago. If the Archives determines that the material found at MaL is in fact property of the government, the classification doesn’t matter. He had stolen government property in his possession. Arrest the fucker! ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3553 "2022-10-05T20:32:56Z")
To proceed from your point 2 - the DOJ requesting a partial stay regarding the classified documents - that stay was granted. Judge Cannon then vacated her original order and issued a superseding order that removed the classified documents from the purview of the Special Master. So, the stay is in existence as a thing that can be reviewed, but the stay itself is now moot, as the order has been superseded. At least, this is how I’m understanding it. How is this supposed to work? Can she do a legal take-backsies and vacate her second order to reinstate the first? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3554 "2022-10-05T21:26:11Z")
So this expedited appeal has a high probability of success. I’m not going to look up quotes for this post so please excuse my paraphrasing. The three judge panel that granted the partial stay earlier said that they were only reviewing Judge Cannon’s order as far as it concerned documents bearing classification markings. But then they go on to describe the factors of the Richey test, and they say Cannon ignored the first factor (callous disregard for constitutional rights) and they could stop right there but would continue for completeness. The absence of this “indispensable factor” should be enough to get the whole order tossed. Trump’s legal team has not even claimed a callous disregard for Trump’s constitutional rights, and Judge Cannon even noted that this factor was absent in her original (lawless and corrupt) order. The only wrinkle is that the panel of Judges hearing this appeal is not the same as the panel that ruled on the partial stay. However, even if by luck of the draw, two of the three judges are so MAGA they don’t give a shit about their reputation, that decision can be appealed to the entire 11th circuit en banc and we know there are enough Trump judges that actually care about the law there to get the whole order tossed. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3555 "2022-10-05T21:44:47Z")
Here’s the part of the original order concerning “callous disregard”: > With respect to the first factor, the Court agrees with the Government that, at least based on the record to date, there has not been a compelling showing of callous disregard for Plaintiff’s constitutional rights. She does include some language that claims the Richey factors are just guidelines, but the panel of judges from the court of appeals calls it an, “indispensable factor.” I’m no lawyer, but if I’m betting on who’s right, it’s not a close call. Furthermore, I don’t think the Trump team will be allowed to claim “callous disregard” at the appeals stage if they never claimed it in front of Judge Cannon. She just ignored this factor and said she was doing so, and that is probably all DOJ needs. For completeness, there’s going to be a lot more filed and argued, but there’s no real way around this point. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3556 "2022-10-06T01:14:20Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it turns out that the reason Trump took all the documents to Mar-a-Lago was to bury the evidence that he uses Rogaine. Prescription for viagra. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3557 "2022-10-06T02:15:55Z")
You gotta do what you gotta do when Melania is begging. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3558 "2022-10-06T03:25:47Z")
The Washington post has nicely annotated the list of the things taken (gift link below) > **[Analysis | What the FBI took from Trump, according to an accidentally...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/10/05/trump-fbi-search-documents/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjEyNzYwNDUiLCJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjY1MDI1Mzk5LCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjY2MjM0OTk5LCJpYXQiOjE2NjUwMjUzOTksImp0aSI6ImU1N2Q2ODdlLTVlMjMtNDgyOS04MjZjLWFmMDY0ZmZiNGM4NSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9wb2xpdGljcy8yMDIyLzEwLzA1L3RydW1wLWZiaS1zZWFyY2gtZG9jdW1lbnRzLyJ9.nKTEhIPMDvhXNJ8gAGSDKcEkF-QbrFX5Ga1TBRaXBp0&itid=gfta)** > > Help us fill in the details. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3559 "2022-10-06T03:50:30Z")
From the list - item #19 under Exhibit B - “Civil complaint in Trump v. Kemp & Raffensperger (N.D.Ga)”. Possibly curious to take a boo at that one. While everything’s empirically laid out in the infamous phone call itself, who knows what surrounding / behind-the-scenes whole grain goodness might have surfaced regarding that. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3560 "2022-10-06T19:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > # [Looks like they found the missing White House phone logs. Not a joke.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/10/6/2127332/-Looks-like-they-found-the-missing-White-House-phone-logs-Not-a-joke) > > … > > ## “On August 25, 2022, an attorney on the Case Team provided the Privilege Review Team attorneys with a 39-page set of materials that appears to reflect the former President’s calls.” > > [cf. p. 6 of [Case 9:22-cv-81294-AMC Document 40 Entered on FLSD Docket 08/30/2022] ](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.40.0.pdf)Warning: PDF > > “Document 40” is the list of material in the hands of the Privilege Review Team that was set up to review material seized at Mar A Lago as part of the filter process. The linked document is the formal declaration communicated to the court prior to dissemination of any materials. They go on to explain why they identify “Item 21” in Exhibit A as apparently reflecting the former president’s calls. For starters, they note: > > > **The majority of pages are titled “The President’s Calls’’ and include the Presidential Seal.** > > The fact these are directly tied to Fat Nixon is demonstrated by the following: > > > Specifically the document contains handwritten names, numbers, and notes that primarily appear to be messages, as well as several pages of miscellaneous notes. > **[Looks like they found the missing White House phone logs. Not a joke.](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/10/6/2127332/-Looks-like-they-found-the-missing-White-House-phone-logs-Not-a-joke?utm_campaign=trending)** > > "On August 25, 2022, an attorney on the Case Team provided the Privilege Review Team attorneys with a 39-page set of materials that appears to reflect the former President's calls." \[ cf. p. 6 of Case 9:22-cv-81294-AMC Document 40 Entered on FLSD... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=177) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=179)