# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 182
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3621 "2022-10-08T17:41:18Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The fact is that the DOJ hasn’t gotten a warrant to search those properties yet. So what do you think is happening? You’ve found some legal argument that the DOJ hasn’t thought of? The DOJ has no interest in looking for documents elsewhere? So its very possible that there just isn’t a universally applied standard and the DOJ sometimes gets away with bending/breaking rules that they know they wouldn’t get away with in the case of someone who can afford top-flight lawyers. It’s also possible that the DOJ is trying to walk a line where they can get enough evidence to prosecute, continue the investigation, etc. while avoiding anything that could be viewed as an arbitrary political persecution by the public and/or a judge. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3622 "2022-10-08T18:24:44Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s not enough to say “Donny had stolen docs at his place in Florida, so we should be able to search his place in New York.” The probable cause requirement says that the officer has to provide probable cause that stolen docs are at Donny’s place in New York. That must be demonstrated by personal observations of someone, not just “reasonable inference”. Someone has to give sworn information that there are stolen docs at his place in New York. So, if I a rob a bank, they can’t search my house for the money unless someone has given sworn information that it’s there? It’s not, “We found docs at his place in Florida, so we are going to look at his other properties.” It’s “We know he has possession of these documents, and they were not all located when we searched his place in Florida, so we should search his other homes.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3623 "2022-10-08T18:28:18Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > You’ve found some legal argument that the DOJ hasn’t thought of? The DOJ has no interest in looking for documents elsewhere? > > Or maybe **Northern\_Piper** is right and the DOJ doesn’t have sufficient probable cause at this time. If you think he’s wrong, then explain the lack of a warrant. Is your argument that because Trump is not currently in jail, he did nothing wrong, or is your argument that because he hasn’t been indicted yet, he can’t be charged with anything? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3624 "2022-10-08T18:31:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Here’s a summary of the warrant requirement from the Legal Information Institute, a non-profit law source run by Cornell Law School: Excellent and informative post, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3625 "2022-10-08T18:53:21Z")
> **[Trump told advisors last year he'd return Mar-a-Lago files in exchange for...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-told-advisors-last-hed-174111474.html)** > > Trump last year repeatedly delayed calls by the National Archives to turn over the presidential boxes at Mar-a-Lago, according to The New York Times. > Former President Donald Trump late last year floated the idea of swapping the files that he took from the White House to Mar-a-Lago in exchange for “sensitive” documents about the FBI investigation of his 2016 campaign’s ties to Russia, [according to The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/us/politics/trump-documents-lawyers.html). ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3626 "2022-10-08T19:07:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Is your argument that because Trump is not currently in jail, he did nothing wrong, or is your argument that because he hasn’t been indicted yet, he can’t be charged with anything? Um, neither of those? Not sure where you got them. I was talking about lack of a warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3627 "2022-10-08T19:07:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Former President Donald Trump late last year floated the idea of swapping the files that he took from the White House to Mar-a-Lago in exchange for “sensitive” documents about the FBI investigation of his 2016 campaign’s ties to Russia, [according to The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/us/politics/trump-documents-lawyers.html). Finally - we have a transactional explanation for why he kept the docs! “I got something you want, you got something I want, let’s make a deal, guys!” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3628 "2022-10-08T19:10:03Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I don’t think the case-law you’ve cited is clear on whether that is good enough. As you wish. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3629 "2022-10-08T19:10:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Excellent and informative post, thank you. Glad you liked it. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3630 "2022-10-08T19:35:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Finally - we have a transactional explanation for why he kept the docs! And that is also a tacit admission that the documents were stolen, Trump knew they were stolen, Trump was the one that stole them, and that he knew they were important. Game, Set, Match. A first-year law student could prosecute this case and win. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3631 "2022-10-08T19:36:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Former President Donald Trump late last year floated the idea of swapping the files that he took from the White House to Mar-a-Lago in exchange for “sensitive” documents about the FBI investigation of his 2016 campaign’s ties to Russia, [according to The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/08/us/politics/trump-documents-lawyers.html). Wouldn’t that be illegal in itself? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3632 "2022-10-08T19:41:13Z")
It’s almost certainly confessing to a crime to make such an offer. He probably did it through intermediaries though. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3633 "2022-10-08T19:42:41Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Wouldn’t that be illegal in itself? Oh, c’mon. Don’tcha know how things really work in the world of New York real estate? The deal’s the thing and then the lawyer flaks paper it over in nice sounding docs! Same thing here! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3634 "2022-10-08T19:45:13Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > He probably did it through intermediaries though. Who now might be looking at federal charges as accomplices, and could have an incentive to flip instead of going off to Club Fed for 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3635 "2022-10-08T19:54:48Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > "…let’s make a deal, guys!” "DOJ, come on down! [https://gfycat.com/uncommonfreeauk](https://gfycat.com/uncommonfreeauk) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3636 "2022-10-08T20:05:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, if I a rob a bank, they can’t search my house for the money unless someone has given sworn information that it’s there? It would depend on the facts, but yes, normally that’s required. I keep coming back to the 4th Amendment: > [@](#): > > Amendment IV > > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Now, if the cops have someone willing to swear that they saw **k9bfriender** running into his house with a big bag marked “loot” 20 minutes after the bank job, that’s pretty good. But if the cops’ own tracking of **k9bfriender** is that he’s not been seen near his house since the bank job, and there are reports that his car was spotted in the next state over just a couple of hours after the bank job, then the cops likely don’t have probable cause to search the house. There are exceptions, like hot pursuit. If the cops are chasing you to your house right after the bank job, they can likely go in to try to arrest you. And if they find you counting the cash from a big bag marked “loot”, they can seize that on the spot, because of the plain view doctrine. But even then, they can’t search the house to see if they’ve got all the cash. They would arrest you, secure the scene, and go apply for a warrant, based on the probable cause they tracked you from the bank job, entered the house in hot pursuit, and found you counting cash. That would get them a warrant for the rest of the house. > [@](#): > > It’s not, “We found docs at his place in Florida, so we are going to look at his other properties.” It’s “We know he has possession of these documents, and they were not all located when we searched his place in Florida, so we should search his other homes.” Two points: First, why do you distinguish between all his other properties, and his homes? Why couldn’t the docs be at any of his places of business? If it’s enough that he had docs at one of his properties, how can you restrict it to homes? Second, this is the point that I’ve been trying to make. Why can you expand the search in that way, to a place a thousand miles away? So there’s good grounds to beleive he had the docs. What allows you to say to a judge, “we’ve narrowed the search to his place in Jersey?” - Maybe he sold the docs to a “foreign visitor” at his Florida place. - Maybe a “foreign visitor” stole the missing docs. - Maybe he gave them to an accomplice to hold for him, because the heat was turning up. - Maybe he got really cold feet and shredded them. Sure, there’s a reasonable possibility those docs are at one of his other residences. But reasonable possibility and reasonable inferences aren’t probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3637 "2022-10-08T20:21:21Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > DOJ, come on down! 😀 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3638 "2022-10-08T21:14:54Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It’s almost certainly confessing to a crime to make such an offer. > > He probably did it through intermediaries though. The _Times_ article says the lawyers refused to pass along the swap offer. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3639 "2022-10-08T21:52:00Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The _Times_ article says the lawyers refused to pass along the swap offer. Finally! Some Trump lawyers who haven’t drunk the Kool-Aid. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3640 "2022-10-08T21:54:43Z")
At this point I think its highly unlikely that the DOJ will be able to find more documents. The only reason that they found the one’s in Mar-a-lago was that Trump believed he was safe. Now that they have shown that they are willing to play hard ball and have started asking about the other documents, anyone with half a brain (yes, I know, assumes facts not in evidence) would have either destroyed them or moved them to a random storage unit far away from his offices. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=181) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=183)