# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3921 "2022-11-18T20:40:33Z")
**IF** a false name is being used for the interim (for whatever reason), imagine the YUGE amounts of wall ketchup that would ensue if Garland had the balls to use the name ‘John Barron.’ ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3922 "2022-11-18T20:41:40Z")
From what I’m learning, Mr. Smith sounds formidable. I think Garland made a superb pick. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3923 "2022-11-18T20:42:06Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m guessing that Smith will drop the documents thing and continue with the more serious stuff. I hope you’re wrong about that. Inciting an insurrection may indeed be “more serious stuff”, but TFG has more wiggle room on that when it comes to the legal burden of proof. The documents thing is a slam-dunk – he had them, he had no right to have them, he denied having them, he posed a national security risk by having them, the FBI seized them and photographed them. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3924 "2022-11-18T20:50:07Z")
indeed. and very easy to explain to a jury. did he have governmental documents? did he refuse to give them back? did we find them in his possession at his domicile? answer yes to those, he is guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3925 "2022-11-18T21:15:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It would seem odd to me to get rid of the one surefire conviction, seeing as Trump literally confessed to the crime. Plus the US takes classified information quite seriously. Trump severely damaged national security by letting that level of documents get out. If, as it was reported recently, he just couldn’t let go of things that he felt a personal, emotional link to then that makes establishing mens rea more difficult and Trump’s lawyers will simply argue that he has a hording compulsion that overrode his rational mind. At the most, you get to hit him with psychiatric care. That then leaves him open to an insanity defense in the larger case, since it’s on the books that he’s a bit nutters. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3926 "2022-11-18T21:19:05Z")
This seems to make two very unlikely assumptions - that Trump’s lawyers are rational and competent, and that Trump would cooperate with rational and competent counsel. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3927 "2022-11-18T21:24:09Z")
Speaking of which, I generally try to refrain from throwing ideas for Trump’s lawyers out into the world. I’ll just leave it there. 😛 I’m quite happy to have Smith go forward with both - and to pick up and move on more complaints as well. ---
**Author:** ![GWF\_Hefel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@GWF\_Hefel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GWF_Hefel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3928 "2022-11-18T21:52:58Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Looks like this is our huckleberry: > > [**JACK SMITH**](https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdtn/jack-smith) I’m so glad to see he’s a cum graduate of Harvard Law. He’s going to need to do a lot of swallowing. Garland has shown his true limpness with this appointment. Why don’t they just issue Galileo a crown? I thought this whole imperial president crap ended in the trashcan with Nixon. I look forward to the day when Trump and Nixon can stroll arm in arm down memory lane because nothing is going to hinder him until then. We’re just a country of rubes, charlatans, and cowards. It’s America, Jake. Just because you’re a lawyer doesn’t mean you have the slightest idea what justice is. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3929 "2022-11-18T21:57:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > I’m guessing that Smith will drop the documents thing and continue with the more serious stuff. > > I hope you’re wrong about that. Inciting an insurrection may indeed be “more serious stuff”, but TFG has more wiggle room on that when it comes to the legal burden of proof. The documents thing is a slam-dunk – he had them, he had no right to have them, he denied having them, he posed a national security risk by having them, the FBI seized them and photographed them. Plus, he read them out loud to Bob Woodward, who taped him reading them out loud. Then he told Woodward not to tell anyone. Why does everyone forget to mention that part? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3930 "2022-11-18T22:03:58Z")
It’s not clear (to me, at least) whether the Orange Peril actually disclosed classified information to Woodward, or just waved things around and bragged about having it. If the former, then yes, add another bullet point to the evidence, and another five years to his prison term. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3931 "2022-11-18T22:15:06Z")
Add me to the list of those underwhelmed by this news. I get that investigating alleged crimes by a former president takes time, but Garland’s been AG for 20 months and it’s taken him this long just to decide a special prosecutor was needed? If one was needed it should have been obvious from day 1. What’s going to happen now that couldn’t have happened without a SP? (Or maybe it’s just 4-dimensional chess – a delaying tactic to make sure the shit hits the fan closer to the primaries when it can really screw the GOP. But I don’t believe that and wouldn’t like it if it were true.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3932 "2022-11-18T22:22:26Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > What’s going to happen now that couldn’t have happened without a SP? The House went Republican. What happens now is that Mr. Smith goes to Washington… I mean, Smith goes to get yelled at by Jim Jordan instead of Garland having to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3933 "2022-11-18T22:28:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The House went Republican … Smith goes to get yelled at by Jim Jordan instead of Garland having to do it. Hmm. I guess that makes sense. From the CNN article, it sounded like Smith was just going to reinvestigate all the stuff the DOJ has presumably been investigating all along. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3934 "2022-11-18T22:28:24Z")
Make that three: TFG would never agree to an insanity defense, or anything close to it. He is, obviously, a very stable genius. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3935 "2022-11-18T22:31:48Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The House went Republican. And Trump announced he’s running again. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2022, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3936 "2022-11-18T23:49:39Z")
**Modnote** : This is very inappropriate humor. Refrain from such in the future. > [@GWF\_Hefel](#): > > I’m so glad to see he’s a cum graduate of Harvard Law. He’s going to need to do a lot of swallowing. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3937 "2022-11-19T00:57:34Z")
Especially with the way the law is written at the Federal level: > **[18 U.S. Code § 17 - Insanity defense](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/17)** “Severe mental disease or defect” ---
**Author:** ![Hoops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoops/32/6408_2.png) [@Hoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoops)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3938 "2022-11-19T01:10:41Z")
Here is what I think is a very good article about the special counsel’s appointment, from the Lawfare blog: > **[Mr. Smith Goes to Washington](https://www.lawfareblog.com/mr-smith-goes-washington)** > > What triggered the appointment of a special counsel, who is Jack Smith, and what, if anything, does this mean for the investigations into Donald Trump? It goes into some statutory definitions regarding when and why the special counsel law is invoked, with some useful links, and has some information about Smith’s background and career. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3939 "2022-11-19T01:24:23Z")
He has experience in investigating and prosecuting high level government officials, also in prosecuting dictators for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Good. I think I’m pleased with Garland’s choice. It looks like Smith understands the importance of holding leaders accountable. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/3940 "2022-11-19T01:39:30Z")
The people I’ve been reading on this have been saying ‘April 2023’ for indictments. Mueller had his 1st indictment 5 months into his SC, which would make this… April. I’m torn on this. I wish Garland had the cajones to make the call himself. I think reports of Trump’s widespread support are wildly overblown and the majority of America is anticipating charges… and will be disappointed if they don’t arise. And to that point, I expect NAMES. If this guy starts indicting 3rd-tier bullshit ‘chief of staff to the assistant of the Interior…’ types, I’ll lead the March on Washington myself. I need names like Meadows, Jared, Ornato (secret service guy), and, of course, Trump indicted. Lastly, if all this does is generate a dumb report which gets referred to Garland (who punted on this a number of times already), I’m gonna scream. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=198)