# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 242
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4821 "2023-06-02T11:04:11Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Sounds like, whatever Trump _intended_ to do with the doc, the fact that he had it _at all_ (where it could theoretically fall into the wrong hands) puts him in violation of the act. A slight addition: it’s not that he had it at all, it’s that he had it and “fail[ed] to surrender the information to an officer of the United States”. Had he handed it over when asked, he would’ve been in the clear. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4822 "2023-06-02T11:43:00Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > I think/assume/hope he’s using a “How do you shoot the devil in the back? What if you miss?” philosophy and making sure every last thing, from the charges themselves down to the grammar is bullet proof as opposed to kicking the can down the road in hopes that he dies before it’s over. > > > > This is the guy that will happily be ‘technically correct’ even when it makes him an asshole. Remember when a reporter asked to see the health plan he promised would be ready in ‘two weeks’, to which trump replied “I said a _few_ weeks, I never said how many weeks” like he’s a fucking six year old pulling one over on his teacher. > > Can you clarify who you’re referring to with “he/him” in your post? I was just saying I hope that, what we perceive as the DOJ dragging their feet is them making sure their case is rock solid. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4823 "2023-06-02T12:05:18Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I was flipping through channels tonight and I saw Hannity asking Trump (in a town hall thing) how he would respond to people who say he should tone it down, stop calling people names. And the audience loudly booed. He’s the whole reprehensible package. They love it. To be fair, whatever you were watching was probably packed with MAGA republicans. If you asked that same question to everyone that voted for him (and even/especially those that considered voting for him but didn’t), I’m guessing you’d get a whole lot of people that want him to tone it down instead of booing the fact that someone even asked the question. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of republican voters would much prefer him to play his cards closer to the vest. Both so they don’t have to defend him every time he talks and so they can tell themselves he’s not that bad. During the last election, my mom, a lifetime republican, had an almost existential crisis. As a family we really don’t discuss politics, but my mom, out of nowhere, mentioned that she can’t bring herself to vote for Biden, but she really doesn’t want to vote for Trump. I had to remind her she could vote for Biden or Jorgenson or just not vote for president, but still vote R during the next cycle…no one will even know. I found out a few days later she brought up the same concerns to one of my sisters and got a similar response. I’d say he could pick up more voters if he kept his mouth shut and stayed away from social media, but he’d probably lose more from the ‘he says what I think’ group. For everyone like my mom that got disgusted with what they heard, there’s probably 10 people that are happy to hear their prejudices being normalized. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4824 "2023-06-02T16:43:14Z")
Okay, so no one can find the Iran document. [Trump attorneys haven’t found classified document](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/02/politics/donald-trump-iran-subpoena/index.html) > Attorneys for Donald Trump turned over material in mid-March in response to a federal subpoena related to a classified US military document[described by the former president on tape](http://www.cnn.com/2023/05/31/politics/trump-tape-classified-document-iran-milley/index.html) in 2021 but were unable to find the document itself, two sources tell CNN. Why, why, why can’t he just be arrested already?! ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4825 "2023-06-02T18:02:30Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > “Deplorables” fell pretty far short of the mark. From the very first I said the more accurate term was “Despicables.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4826 "2023-06-02T18:10:32Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > Okay, so no one can find the Iran document. > [Trump attorneys haven’t found classified document](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/02/politics/donald-trump-iran-subpoena/index.html) And apparently the Donald is simply saying he knows nothing about the meeting that took place. Well, technically, he said that he knows nothing about the prosecutors having a tape of the meeting. Which is probably true, because he’s a fecking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4827 "2023-06-02T18:36:31Z")
It is very possible that he was simply lying about the Iran document. Pretending some blank paper is something important is a timeless Trump classic. > > There is no doubt that he stole documents, but having him on tape admitting that he stole this particular document almost makes me believe that he did not. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4828 "2023-06-02T18:47:58Z")
That is entirely possible. If it’s a document that Milley or someone else typed, surely there would be another copy or a record that it existed, but maybe not, considering the boss at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4829 "2023-06-02T19:08:43Z")
I have no doubt that there is a real document that matches this description. The doubts I’m expressing here a limited to the truthfulness of Donald Trump. If he says he’s holding a plan to attack Iran in his hand, I think there’s a non-negligible that he is actually holding something else. Jack Smith however, absolutely must follow up on this (as it appears he has). He has to talk to everyone at that meeting and find out what they saw. If there is corroboration that Trump had a classified doc at Bedminster, Jack Smith must track down where that doc is today. If the FBI already recovered it, that’s bad for Trump. If the FBI did not recover it… that’s worse. I’m simply not willing to take Trump’s word that he had that particular document. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4830 "2023-06-02T19:12:09Z")
One possible reason the document can’t be located is because it’s in the possession of the Saudis. That $2B payment went toward _something_. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4831 "2023-06-02T19:12:18Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > There is no doubt that he stole documents, but having him on tape admitting that he stole this particular document almost makes me believe that he did not. Yep, the instant he was described as waving around a paper while claiming to possess a document, it was like, “Well, now we’ll just never know, will we?” It seems unlikely that he’d actually have had the document there with him, to wave around, so I’m sure that (if he did wave a paper) it was just some random sheet that was near him at that moment. But how do you approach that from a legal standpoint, as his defense team? Defense: I’m sorry, your honor, my client is a pathological liar. He was lying, in that recorded conversation. Judge: "How do you know that, **that’s** the time he was lying, rather than that he’s lying **now** when he says that he never took that document to Florida? Defense: Um… If Trump has to admit to pathological deception then he’s basically made the case for the government. If he tries to maintain that he’s an honest and trustworthy guy then he’s claiming that he’s still, purposefully withholding documents from the government and, again, he’s made the case for the government. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4832 "2023-06-02T22:03:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But how do you approach that from a legal standpoint, as his defense team? This would never come up at trial unless they can prove that the document exists and Trump had possession of it at some point after he left office, but not necessarily at Bedminster on this particular day. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4833 "2023-06-02T22:28:59Z")
It could come up at trial regardless of the existence or non existence of the document. The recording could be used as evidence that shows Trump knew that classified documents were not to be shared, and that the documents in his possession were classified. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4834 "2023-06-02T22:45:00Z")
Agree it’s persuasive evidence that he knew he was in the wrong but IANAL and I’m curious to know if mens rea is relevant in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4835 "2023-06-02T23:18:16Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The recording could be used as evidence that shows Trump knew that classified documents were not to be shared, and that the documents in his possession were classified. It definitely does not show that he knew the documents in his possession were classified if the document in his possession at the time was speaking was a Chinese restaurant menu. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4836 "2023-06-02T23:43:22Z")
It shows that everything he’s said about classification and the magical ways in which it could be negated is bullshit, and he’s aware of that. Even if he was holding a piece of toilet paper he pulled off of his shoe, instead of an actual classified document. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4837 "2023-06-03T00:09:33Z")
The most common theory I see amongst credible people is that Kushner passed along information that helped MBS round up his family in house arrest while he consolidated power. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2023, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4838 "2023-06-03T00:25:41Z")
I posted this several months ago, a post from Trump in which he seems to indicate that he kept “papers” related to Iran, and that Garland is mad because a relative of his in the State Department needs them. [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/A4VdV7I.png "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/A4VdV7I) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4839 "2023-06-03T01:47:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It shows that everything he’s said about classification and the magical ways in which it could be negated is bullshit, and he’s aware of that. Even if he was holding a piece of toilet paper he pulled off of his shoe, instead of an actual classified document. It in no way shows that. It shows he likes to brag and he likes to feel important, which some perceptive types have already picked up on. This tape is a great investigative lead, but without a document to tie to it’s not going to come up in court. They already have rock solid evidence of everything you claim this tape shows. Even the things you are clearly wrong about. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/4840 "2023-06-03T01:59:24Z")
I don’t understand this line of argument. We already have plenty of evidence that he kept classified documents. We don’t need any particular smoking gun document. His argument in court may be that he personally declassified the documents found by investigators so there is no crime. That tape is evidence that he knew he can’t just declassify documents like that, which proves he willfully retained documents he was not entitled to have. Also, as far as I know nobody has searched the residence he was at when that recording was made, so while it’s entirely possible he was bullshitting about a fake document there’s also a good chance it, and other documents with it, haven’t been recovered yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=241) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=243)