# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 272
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5421 "2023-06-10T13:01:41Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Jay Bratt. He chose this venue to file the indictment. How do I know this? Because it says so on the indictment! He chose the division, but I think it was said upthread that there are five judges in that division? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5422 "2023-06-10T13:10:52Z")
That was a good read. I especially liked “morally malleable retreads” 🙂 That Mara Lardo bathroom has gold fixtures and a chandelier, but what’s up with that Walmart curtain behind everything? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5423 "2023-06-10T13:12:39Z")
> The problem with [Trump endlessly committing crimes, and then gulling the rubes in order to pay his endless legal bills] is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. With apologies (and not for the first time, oddly) to Margaret Thatcher. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5424 "2023-06-10T13:20:13Z")
From what I’ve read, just because she is involved at this initial stage, doesn’t mean that she is the judge throughout the process, but IANAL and am just relying on news reports. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5425 "2023-06-10T13:36:36Z")
Why are there only 31 charges of willful retention? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5426 "2023-06-10T13:39:30Z")
I’m going to guess on this one. The Espionage Act specifically refers and pertains to “National defense information.” My guess is that only some of the documents in Trump’s possession met that standard, and – therefore – were covered by the Espionage Act. Maybe. ETA: I’m probably wrong. Willful Retention can be covered by 18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material. Without checking, that may be how they charged this violation, which would render my surmise incorrect. ETA2: Or maybe I’m right (and @Northern_Piper is right, too): > **[Espionage Act: What To Know About The Century-Old Law Trump’s Being Charged...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/06/09/espionage-act-what-to-know-about-the-century-old-law-trumps-being-charged-under/)** > > The law makes it a crime to “willfully retain” national defense information—and is punishable by up to 10 years in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5427 "2023-06-10T13:43:07Z")
I’ve seen a suggestion in one online discussion that they have only charged the most serious ones. They’re easy to explain to a jury just how serious they are and what the effect of them getting out could be. Swamping the jury with the overall number of documents may be counter-productive as losing the thread of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5428 "2023-06-10T13:46:20Z")
I heard there were documents that were so sensitive, they couldn’t charge on them because they can’t risk introducing them in court. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5429 "2023-06-10T13:53:11Z")
I’m a bit skeptical of this one, because there’s a law that covers how classified evidence is handled at trial, generally: > **[2054. Synopsis Of Classified Information Procedures Act (CIPA)](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-2054-synopsis-classified-information-procedures-act-cipa)** > > This is archived content from the U.S. Department of Justice website. The information here may be outdated and links may no longer function. Please contact webmaster@usdoj.gov if you have any questions about the archive site. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5430 "2023-06-10T14:03:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > if cases are usually assigned to judges that have some prior connection to the case. They aren’t. > [@madmonk28](#): > > just because she is involved at this initial stage, doesn’t mean that she is the judge throughout the process, but IANAL and am just relying on news reports. This is correct. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5431 "2023-06-10T14:21:18Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > I took a look at the [warrant application](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3848398-Reality-Winner-Affidavit-for-Application-of.html) for the [search the FBI did on Reality Winner](https://web.archive.org/web/20170627093354/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-08/accused-leaker-is-indicted-for-disclosing-classified-report) because it seems like the wide net cast in that case would not have been approved by a judge based on the constraints and evidence-standard you are alleging. > > The FBI gave evidence that Winner was likely the only employee who sent an email to The Intercept who also accessed the documents in the relevant time-frame, and used that evidence as probable cause to search _all_ of her electronic devices, her house and her car … One very strong impression I got from recently watching the HBO dramatization of this event – which was supposedly a faithful reenactment that exactly followed the transcript of the FBI audio recording – is what a big deal this was. For those who didn’t follow the story, Winner was suspected and ultimately charged with mishandling classified material for smuggling one single classified document out of a secure contractor facility and releasing it to the publication _The Intercept_, which she apparently did out of a sense of duty to reveal to the American public facts about Russian interference in the 2016 election which had been classified. As a result, a search warrant was issued to search her house, her car, and all her electronic devices (which turned up nothing, because there was nothing to be found). But based on what she was suspected to have done, she was arrested by the FBI, denied bail, and subsequently sentenced to 63 months in prison. She was released to a halfway house for good behaviour after four years, and then required to be on supervised probation for a further two years. Her life is pretty much ruined. I bring this up only to contrast it with the treatment the Orange Peril is about to receive, who mishandled not one document, but untold numbers of them in countless boxes, some undoubtedly much more sensitive than the one Winner mishandled, waving them around with reckless impunity and acting like he had every right to do whatever he wanted with them even though he knew full well that he did not. If the orange fuckstick does not spend _ **more** _ than five years in jail, we will know there is no actual justice in the US system of justice, and that claims that “no one is above the law” are just so much bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5432 "2023-06-10T14:28:35Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > > [@madmonk28](#): > > > > just because she is involved at this initial stage, doesn’t mean that she is the judge throughout the process, but IANAL and am just relying on news reports. > > This is correct. I should be more clear on what I’m saying. Just because this judge handled a previous issue related to the case doesn’t automatically mean that she’s going to handle the case. But, at this point, she is the trial judge. This means she will handle the trial, including jury selection (voir dire). There _may_ be a magistrate judge who handles pretrial issues, but that would be with the consent of the parties. So she is the judge for the case, but not because of some pre-existing relationship. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5433 "2023-06-10T14:37:02Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > waving them around with reckless impunity and acting like he had every right to do whatever he wanted with them even though **he knew full well that he did not.** - Objection! Facts not in evidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5434 "2023-06-10T15:04:47Z")
Probably Schadenfreude, since [this article](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ivanka-trump-disappeared-miami-stay-131615000.html) is about Ivanka distancing herself from her father, but I thought this last paragraph belonged here [emphasis mine]. > According to veteran national security lawyer Kel McClanahan, [who spoke to Insider on Friday](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-indictment-godfather-tactics-hide-documents-from-fbi-2023-6?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=yahoo.com), the indictment is damning. He said the document lays bare Trump’s bumbling efforts to evade the law and is **reminiscent of "‘The Godfather’ — if it was reenacted by a 5-year-old.**" ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5435 "2023-06-10T15:39:12Z")
Might Smith’s strategy be to prosecute in Florida, but if Judge Cannon delays things or screws around also indict in DC and NJ? As well as pushing back on Judge Cannon. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5436 "2023-06-10T16:50:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > I guarantee that he asked at least one set of disposable lawyers to offer that kind of deal, though. “Make this go away, you idiot! Tell Jack Smith that we’ll donate a million dollars to something! That always works!” It’s quite telling that Jim Trusty and John Rowley [announced they’d resigned](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/09/trump-loses-two-lawyers-just-hours-after-being-indicted-00101263) shortly after the indictment dropped. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5437 "2023-06-10T17:07:20Z")
It probably didn’t help when they saw how deceitful he was to Corcoran. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5438 "2023-06-10T17:12:02Z")
My guess is that Trusty and Rowley saw the indictment, and told Trump he was basically screwed. Trump ordered them to commit illegal acts (bribe witnesses/judge, suborn perjury, etc.) and they refused. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5439 "2023-06-10T17:17:49Z")
I’ve seen concerns that he could flee the country. What would be the downside to that? If he came back, he could (I imagine) be immediately arrested, like he should have been in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5440 "2023-06-10T17:22:08Z")
> There are a significant number of countries that do not have extradition treaties with the United States, including Afghanistan, Cuba, Qatar, Russia, **Saudi Arabia** , and Yemen. I think this would be the best possible outcome. No real downside in my opinion. I’m sure others could argue that he should not be allowed to escape justice and jail time by running away, but I’d be quite happy for him to be put into a Saudi Arabian zoo for the rich princes to look at. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=271) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=273)