# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 281
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5601 "2023-06-12T16:00:39Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > However, the severity of conditions in ADX Florence has caused prisoners to suffer from extreme paranoia, perceptual distortions, psychosis, depression, insomnia and hypertension > > Doesn’t that describe Trump now? The slightly funny thing is, if the sentencing judge is a strong partisan who thinks Trump has those conditions, it will lower the sentence per federal guidelines — especially if the judge thinks one or more of those mental states got worse as Trump got older. But if the judge thinks Trump is normal and sharp, as a Trump-voting judge probably does, guidelines dictate a longer sentence. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5602 "2023-06-12T16:06:47Z")
Just a few comments about Judge Cannon, and how a Judge cannot alter these proceedings. I’m speaking in general terms/going for clarity, but please correct me if I’m not accurate or completely off-base. 1. Evidence. The Judge is the sole gatekeeper of what evidence is allowed. Judge’s have discretion to determine is evidence should be allowed in or out. So while another Judge may have allowed certain evidence in, Judge Cannon keep that same evidence out; in general, that happens often and is perfectly normal. However, there are limits to a Judge’s discretion. So on an appeal, even if the appellate Judge’s personally think the evidence should be allowed, unless Judge Cannon is abusing her discretion, the appellate Judge’s tend to defer to the trial Judge’s decision on won’t disturb her ruling. Here, for example, you have **evidence coming from Trump’s attorney**. That’s protected by attorney-client privilege and _cannot_ be used as evidence, unless an exception to the privilege applies. The prosecutors previously got the grand jury judge to allow the exception and it was used as evidence (ie, the crime fraud exception - Trump’s statements to attorney were meant to further or conceal a crime). However, Judge Cannon may rule differently, and it might not be overturned even if the appellate Judge’s might have personally thought differently if the appellate Judges don’t think Judge Cannon was abusing her discretion (ie, rational and reasonable Judge’s could come to different decisions about it). Just food for thought. Just because it’s in the indictment doesn’t mean it’s going to be put in front of a Jury, and if it’s not put in front of a Jury doesn’t mean Judge Cannon will be overturned for keeping it out (or allowing stuff in that should be kept out - I can imagine Trump wanting to get some non-relevant "witch hunt’ stuff in that should be kept out). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5603 "2023-06-12T16:16:52Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > So on an appeal, It’s my understanding that if a jury finds Trump not guilty (even if it’s based on bad rulings during the trial by Judge Cannon), then the prosecution cannot appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5604 "2023-06-12T16:17:39Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > I will derive unparalleled amusement at the prospect of Trump being forced to stand next to whichever local public defender happened to draw the short straw on the day. Even better, “I am the flesh and blood person Donald John:Trump, representing the strawman “DONALD TRUMP”.” You know he can produce documents entirely printed in gold leaf. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5605 "2023-06-12T16:19:08Z")
re: Florida “local counsel”. It seems impossible to me that someone is not able to find a lawyer licensed in the Southern District of Florida - not saying it’s wrong, just like amazing. Maybe the lawyers that quit were the only ones licensed there? Even still. I haven’t read anything, but if Trump doesn’t have _anyone_ licensed in SDFL, then none of his lawyers can be there. What needs to happen, and it can happen fast, is you hire one licensed SDFL lawyer, who then files a specific Motion (Pro Hac) to ask the Judge to allow all the non-licensed SDFL attorneys to be able to participate in this one single case even though they are not licensed. These motions are generally never ever denied and the prosecutors would even consent to them. But you do need that single licensed to lawyer to file the motion and get this started. That’s my understanding based on what was reported in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5606 "2023-06-12T16:32:56Z")
House arrest would be fine if he was confined to a vegan farm and had to eat only food grown there. If I’m Walt Nauta, I’m going to want a competent lawyer, not some goon that is willing to be stiffed by Donald. His ass is on the line here, doesn’t he get a say in who represents him? I’m not too worried about Loosey Cannon- this case is so airtight she would have to show such blatant favoritism to save Donnie’s skin that she’d be overruled on appeal easily. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5607 "2023-06-12T16:35:09Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > but reporting this morning is saying there is a chance that the arraignment won’t be able to be held tomorrow. That doesn’t mean there is no hearing. It’s just a first appearance, and there would be a short reset for him to have his attorney appear. > [@Gyrate](#): > > If a defendant can’t (or doesn’t) find a lawyer in a timely manner, do the courts normally proceed with the case anyway or do they say “Find one or we’ll give you one unless you opt to represent yourself”? Yeah, the case is going to proceed regardless. And I’m not sure he’d qualify for the public defender (at least at the Florida state level, it’s based on financial ability to pay). > [@CoolHandCox](#): > > It seems impossible to me that someone is not able to find a lawyer licensed in the Southern District of Florida - not saying it’s wrong, just like amazing. Maybe the lawyers that quit were the only ones licensed there? Even still. I’d represent him. I just need my legal fee - $25 million, enough to really comfortably retire - paid up front in cash. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5608 "2023-06-12T16:37:08Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > What needs to happen, and it can happen fast, is you hire one licensed SDFL lawyer, who then files a specific Motion (Pro Hac) to ask the Judge to allow all the non-licensed SDFL attorneys to be able to participate in this one single case even though they are not licensed It’s even easier. If you’re a member of the Florida Bar, you can apply to be admitted in this District very easily and don’t need to ask for permission to appear Pro Hac Vice. Pro Hac admission would be for an attorney not admitted in Florida at all. (some of Trump’s attorneys might be from out of state, I haven’t looked). ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5609 "2023-06-12T16:37:10Z")
That’s an excellent point. It brings in double jeopardy and we know you can’t be tried twice for the same crime. I don’t know the answer, though if there is a way to set aside the not guilty verdict. I like to take things to an extreme as it sometimes illuminates things for me. Let’s say Judge Cannon systematically rules against every piece of evidence the prosecution wants to admit. Horrendously all favorable to Trump, down to the most mundane and certainly admittable pieces of evidence. The Jury, having no evidence, finds Trump not guilty. Surely that can’t stand (right?), but I’m not sure of the procedure of how it would be dealt with. Is it just some (outside the case) impeachment against the Judge, or is there something that can be done within the actual case. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5610 "2023-06-12T16:48:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > If I’m Walt Nauta, I’m going to want a competent lawyer, not some goon that is willing to be stiffed by Donald. If any of us were Walt Nauta, we’d have been on the phone to the FBI about this years ago. As this point, we have to assume that he’s entirely in thrall to Trump, and will end up being the fall guy in Trump’s narrative. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5611 "2023-06-12T16:49:19Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > That’s an excellent point. It brings in double jeopardy and we know you can’t be tried twice for the same crime. I don’t know the answer, though if there is a way to set aside the not guilty verdict. A person found not guilty can be retried if the appellate court finds that there were serious errors of law in the conduct of the trial. It is not considered double jeopardy because the defendant was never in any real “jeopardy” due to the errors of the court. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5612 "2023-06-12T16:49:53Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > The prosecutors previously got the grand jury judge to allow the exception and it was used as evidence (ie, the crime fraud exception - Trump’s statements to attorney were meant to further or conceal a crime). This is a misstatement of what occurred. It wasn’t up to the grand jury in DC to “allow the exception.” It was heard and ruled upon by DC Circuit Chief Judge (at the time) Beryl Howell. It was her ruling that pierced the crime-fraud exception that allowed the evidence in, overcoming attorney client privilege. It’s true that Cannon could decide this in a different way than Judge Howell. But Cannon is a district court judge, and Howell is a circuit court judge. I think we know how the Eleventh Circuit would rule on Cannon’s choice to ignore Judge Howell’s previous ruling on this. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5613 "2023-06-12T17:06:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m not too worried about Loosey Cannon- this case is so airtight she would have to show such blatant favoritism to save Donnie’s skin that she’d be overruled on appeal easily. The key is going to be vore dire. If Cannon can rule that political partisanship can’t be used as an exclusion criteria for jurors, then it doesn’t matter how air tight the case is, you have a good chance of getting jury nullification. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5614 "2023-06-12T17:06:26Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Would the court foist a public defender on him for purposes of holding the arraignment in a timely manner? That would be one way that his lawyer could be guaranteed to be paid. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5615 "2023-06-12T17:10:11Z")
I’m sure that Jack Smith knows approximately one trillion times more than me about the law. Is the fact that the grand jury was in D.C. and not Fla. something that Trump can cry “unfair!” about? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5616 "2023-06-12T17:13:11Z")
If Trump isn’t eligible for a public defender, is it possible for the court to appoint him a lawyer and force him to pay for them? Presumably, through garnishing, liens on accounts, or any of the other methods courts use to force payment? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5617 "2023-06-12T17:15:00Z")
How long would it take Rudy to get licensed in FL? Does it go by reciprocity and if you’re licensed in one state you can just pay for a FL license? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5618 "2023-06-12T17:20:10Z")
Begin the thawing of Bruce Cutler! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5619 "2023-06-12T17:24:23Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How long would it take Rudy to get licensed in FL? Does it go by reciprocity and if you’re licensed in one state you can just pay for a FL license? First of all, Rudy’s bar status is “suspended” as I recall. But many states do have reciprocity for bar admissions. Typically, it requires at least 5 years of being in “good standing” in your home bar, and sometimes requires some testing. It usually also requires a background check. It takes months. However, an out of state attorney does not have to apply to become a member of the Florida bar. They can ask to be admitted Pro Hac Vice for this particular case. That is a pretty quick process, and you can even ask to appear while your Pro Hac application is pending. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5620 "2023-06-12T17:25:57Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The slightly funny thing is, if the sentencing judge is a strong partisan who thinks Trump has those conditions, it will lower the sentence per federal guidelines — especially if the judge thinks one or more of those mental states got worse as Trump got older. > > But if the judge thinks Trump is normal and sharp, as a Trump-voting judge probably does, guidelines dictate a longer sentence. It doesn’t work that way. Trump is simultaneously a genius billionaire businessman with an unerring ability to hire the best and brightest people to help him, and someone who needs regular donations to keep his campaign afloat when he’s let down by the incompetent, disloyal people he’s forced to hire. In this particular case, expect lots of Trump’s followers to laud his brilliant legal machinations during the trial, and then say that he deserves compassionate release if he’s convicted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=280) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=282)