# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 296
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5901 "2023-06-14T21:28:27Z")
Thanks. It was cued up. I’ll have to check out that guy more often. I did find a helpful list of all the [31 documents here](https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-are-classified-documents-trump-indictment) with an educated guess as to what they are. I also thought this was also insightful: > Only 31 documents are specifically mentioned for the purposes of the charges; **one charge per document—to allow the government to take or withdraw each document in the trial separately**. The case will therefore center on these documents and not the others [that were recovered but not charged]. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5902 "2023-06-14T21:31:30Z")
The local news just said discovery has begun so Trumps lawyers get to review the evidence against him. I used to think of a way to solve some problem at work and be looking forward to going to work the next day. I’m thinking these guys aren’t really looking forward to tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5903 "2023-06-14T22:12:28Z")
I enjoyed [this article in the NY Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/13/us/politics/trump-indictment-2024-campaign.html?unlocked_article_code=Dya7If93ij7ZLoxj-hhjFna-2unJwAq0kOtjibbhFqM-VAgklDHkiBCkyEECYG42oWUGkrAPead_5dr4lcsgjuzoMppnXlOKZ7qNnFW2JzNJPgKVLVLgsxe0P53NZ973zxjVx78dg4hu-n_ARjVjv0XcdWTF7wQgDqozt5G2P290Hs2CQVWtH2jkfszjLGRI2kX7BuRC7HhfiSmVX41BBnjlCiX7YG8UJsGELl33pkb9gS0s3ec9gu_lkAz1LxVxtrOxzzyuAtIO6LChMwy5g4cR4wF8zM7X4b_QA_iMFwB9Yj_smden5eC-QuICARNtE_UQSj71vymfuUiapkES08ZE0FDGDmWNoA8OGA&smid=url-share) (gift link), describing Trump’s behavior yesterday after the indictment as “deflated” and “low energy.” > Visibly deflated after pleading not guilty for the second time in three months, his dry and low-energy resuscitation of his legal defense — even inflected with the usual references to Marxists, Communists and fascists — pleased his advisers but drew a relatively muted response from a crowd that had minutes earlier craned their phones for a shot of his motorcade. > When he finished, he barely lingered to take in the applause. He gave an obligatory fist pump and mouthed thanks to the crowd. Then he turned and went inside. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5904 "2023-06-14T22:29:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Also, it’s interesting to point out that this trial is going to interfere with his ability to campaign, because he’ll be compelled to make appearances at court when he’d rather be out trying to convince people to vote for him. Every court appearance doubles as a campaign event. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5905 "2023-06-14T22:58:14Z")
Did anyone notice that everyone in the crowd seemed to have the same model phone? See the start of the [C-Span video.](https://www.c-span.org/video/?528671-1/president-trump-remarks-court-appearance) Were attendees issued a phone at the gate? Is there some Trump-branded phone that all good MAGAs buy? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5906 "2023-06-14T23:17:13Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > The local news just said discovery has begun so Trumps lawyers get to review the evidence against him. I used to think of a way to solve some problem at work and be looking forward to going to work the next day. I’m thinking these guys aren’t really looking forward to tomorrow. I’m sure they know their client is “toast” (as William Barr put it). Surely they’re more worried about getting stiffed by their client. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5907 "2023-06-14T23:35:54Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Every court appearance doubles as a campaign event. Before I read your post, I was sure he would always waive his right to be present at trial, which he can: [Rule 43 Defendant’s Presence](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_43) > [@](#): > > If the defendant waives the right to be present, the trial may proceed to completion, including the verdict’s return and sentencing, during the defendant’s absence. But now I am thinking, maybe he will make an appearance or two as, to use your phrase, campaign events. I find it hardest to believe he would appear for the verdict or sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5908 "2023-06-14T23:39:18Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Before I read your post, I was sure he would always waive his right to be present at trial, which he can: > [Rule 43 Defendant’s Presence](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_43) I think he has to be there. That rule is there for people who are removed from the trial for misconduct, and are thereby deemed to have waived their presence. > a) When Required. Unless this rule, [Rule 5](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_5), or [Rule 10](https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_10) provides otherwise, the defendant must be present at: > > (1) the initial appearance, the initial arraignment, and the plea; > > (2) **every trial stage, including jury impanelment and the return of the verdict** ; and > > (3) sentencing. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5909 "2023-06-14T23:49:07Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Did anyone notice that everyone in the crowd seemed to have the same model phone? See the start of the [C-Span video.](https://www.c-span.org/video/?528671-1/president-trump-remarks-court-appearance) Were attendees issued a phone at the gate? Is there some Trump-branded phone that all good MAGAs buy? I thought they might be [freedom phones](https://www.inverse.com/input/tech/surprise-erik-finmans-freedom-phone-is-a-scam-a-privacy-horror) , but they look [different](https://images.indianexpress.com/2021/09/Freedom-Phone.jpg) The ones being held up all look like some sort of Iphone. Not sure why none of the MAGAs have androids. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5910 "2023-06-14T23:50:54Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Thanks. It was cued up. I’ll have to check out that guy more often. Very much worth it. He covers a lot of the legal aspects of what’s going on in, for lack of a better phrase, pop culture. And, he does it in a way that’s both very in depth and very easy for the layman to understand. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5911 "2023-06-14T23:53:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Also, it’s interesting to point out that this trial is going to interfere with his ability to campaign, … He did just appear in Miami and New Jersey within mere hours. He has the technology. And the court issued no travel restrictions of any kind. Except for the time when an actual verdict is awaited, he’ll know just when he needs to be in Miami. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5912 "2023-06-14T23:59:39Z")
Maybe they’re all “Freedom Phones?” [Apparently they had a lot of issues.](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/the-maga-targeted-freedom-phone-has-a-breathtaking-amount-of-red-flags/) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5913 "2023-06-15T00:01:25Z")
I feel like any complaints about the trial interfering with his campaign should be answered with a timeline detailing all the delays he’s created and, if an informal/just for the public, case can be made, show that he was delaying things specifically so he could make this claim. Fucked around and found out. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5914 "2023-06-15T00:13:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I think he has to be there. That rule is there for people who are removed from the trial for misconduct, and are thereby deemed to have waived their presence. The way I read it a non-disruptive defendant only has to be there for the initial appearance, arraignment, and conceivably more if a capital (death penalty) case. This is from the “1975 Amendment”: > [@](#): > > The Supreme Court amendments provide that a defendant has waived his right to be present at the trial of a capital or noncapital case in two circumstances: (1) when he voluntarily absents himself after the trial has begun; and (2) where he “engages in conduct which is such as to justify his being excluded from the courtroom.” Some would say he’ll qualify under both (1) and (2), but I think just (1) is more likely. However, Rule 43 is hard to interpret due to repeated revisions. I’ve been wrong before and could be again. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5915 "2023-06-15T00:27:26Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > The way I read it a non-disruptive defendant only has to be there for the initial appearance, arraignment, and conceivably more if a capital (death penalty) case I think that’s for people who don’t show up for day 2 of trial, for example. He would have “voluntarily absents himself.” In other words, failed to show up. The trial goes on, is all the rule is saying. From the comments: > The second sentence of the rule is a restatement of existing law that, except in capital cases, the defendant may not defeat the proceedings by voluntarily absenting himself after the trial has been commenced in his presence, The other part of the rule requires him to be there. So, the trial goes on, he’s arrested and bail revoked. A federal criminal defendant cannot just decline to appear at trial. He could, _theoretically_, ask the Judge for permission to miss part of the trial. But if he fails to show up without permission, he’s going to get locked up. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5916 "2023-06-15T00:36:33Z")
Did you read the post you replied to? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5917 "2023-06-15T01:11:20Z")
I got ninja’d. Man, I’m doing terribly at posting today. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5918 "2023-06-15T01:28:45Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > The local news just said discovery has begun so Trumps lawyers get to review the evidence against him. Prretty sure they’re going to have to get Top Secret clearances for some of the evidence. That may take a little while. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5919 "2023-06-15T01:48:16Z")
No hurry! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5920 "2023-06-15T01:49:14Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > A federal criminal defendant cannot just decline to appear at trial. He could, _theoretically_, ask the Judge for permission to miss part of the trial. I found one more reason you might be correct here: [Trial in Absentia](https://lawpublications.barry.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1073&context=barrylrev) On page 158, it says that appearance at trial can be made a condition of bond. Was it in this case? As to whether it furthers justice to routinely require attendance, I don’t see why. And in the Trump case, it could interfere with the democratic practice of running for office. I found this disturbing claim about the origin of the defendant presence requirement in my last link: > [@](#): > > The exigency of the defendant’s presence at his trial has historical roots, but fortunately, this exigency no longer exists. . . . One of the most common methods by which to seek justice was the trial by ordeal; by which the guilt or innocence of the defendant was determined according to the water or fire test. Consequently, only the defendant who was present was able to be tested. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=295) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=297)