# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 297
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5921 "2023-06-15T02:32:46Z")
I’d love the fire AND water test. Since the MAGAs want to go back to the “good old days”, I’m fine with the guilt or innocence testing. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5922 "2023-06-15T03:03:19Z")
- There are ways of telling whether she is a witch. - Are there? What are they? Tell us. - Do they hurt? - Tell me, what do you do with witches? - Burn them! - And what do you burn, apart from witches? - More witches! - Wood! - So why do witches burn? - 'Cause they’re made of wood? - Good! - How do we tell if she is made of wood? - Build a bridge out of her. - But can you not also make bridges out of stone? - Oh, yeah. - Does wood sink in water? - No, it floats. - Throw her into the pond! - What also floats in water? - Bread. - Apples. - Very small rocks. - Cider! Great gravy. - Cherries. Mud. - Churches. - Lead. - A duck! - Exactly. - So, logically– - If she weighs the same as a duck… - she’s made of wood. - And therefore? - A witch! ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5923 "2023-06-15T03:45:00Z")
There’s no way that he’ll be forced to attend every proceeding. There will be a “donald trump exemption”. But other than that, and endless social media pot stirring, and flying around getting his ass sucked at his rallies, and running his endless grifts, he’ll be treated like any other defendant facing similar charges. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5924 "2023-06-15T13:05:58Z")
One of the incessant refrains from the Trump camp is that the Espionage Act is a hundred year old law. Anybody else have a sense of how long the US has had murder laws on the books?? How compelling would it be – if and when he ‘shoots somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue --’ arguing that he’s “being charged with a law that dates back to British Common Law?” Yeah. Exactly. He “loves the poorly educated.” They make our country an objectively worse place to live. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5925 "2023-06-15T13:11:13Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > One of the incessant refrains from the Trump camp is that the Espionage Act is a hundred year old law. And of course that old crusty framework of laws called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is well over 200 years old. Who needs them! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5926 "2023-06-15T13:16:54Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And of course that old crusty framework of laws called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is well over 200 years old. Who needs them! > **[Trump: 'I have an Article 2 where I have the right to do whatever I want as...](https://theweek.com/speedreads/854487/trump-have-article-2-where-have-right-whatever-want-president)** > > The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5927 "2023-06-15T13:24:05Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > And of course that old crusty framework of laws called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is well over 200 years old. Who needs them! Be careful what you wish for; I suspect a lot of MAGAts would accept this, if it meant Trump was president again. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5928 "2023-06-15T14:12:04Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Be careful what you wish for; I suspect a lot of MAGAts would accept this, if it meant Trump was president again. Trump already said we need to get rid of the constitution. > **[Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution in Truth Social post](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html)** > > Former President Donald Trump called for the termination of the Constitution to overturn the 2020 election and reinstate him to power Saturday in a continuation of his election denialism and pushing of fringe conspiracy theories. The only laws should be whatever Trump tells people to do. I expect he’d double down after this current indictment. Let’s hope he doesn’t get a chance to put any of his words into action. Does anyone know the next step in this case and have an ETA on when it will be? I think they’re in the discovery phase now. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5929 "2023-06-15T15:55:34Z")
re: next steps and the ETA. I’ll carve out the other Defendant (who still needs to make a plea) and focus on Trump. They have started discovery. I’ll divide into classified discovery/evidence and normal discovery. For normal discovery, that can be turned over fairly quickly. For classified evidence, first, Trump needs a lawyer with clearance to receive it. I think he’s working on that. It’s basically just doing a background check on the attorney. He’ll also want lawyers with national security experience, and should be afforded time to find some. There will be normal motions to suppress evidence, like the attorney conversations/notes, and to invalidate the search warrant, etc. Then it gets murky because we don’t know how the prosecution intends to handle the classified documents. To win the case, they have to prove to the jury the docs contain national defense information. So they have to let the Defense/Jury see them, but how (because of all the secrets). There is roughly three choices: 1. **Declassify** them and hand them over; 2. **Redact/summarize** them using a process called CIPA - this could take a very long time regardless of whether appeals are involved; 3. use the **silent witness rule** - the docs are not marked as exhibits (so not public), the defense/jury is handed the unredacted document, and the Gov’t witness on stand describing why the document relates to national defense information will say “look at paragraph 4 and read it, that’s talking about how we would defend an attack on the west coast” (basically, everyone can see the document/details, the witness describes the details at a high and superficial level and that description via transcript is the only thing made public). So for ETA, it depends on how the prosecution intends to present the evidence. I’m sure they have considered this very much prior to filing. However, they also choose 31 documents - 20 which are Top Secret! Declassify, and we’re off to the races. Get defense/Judge to agree on how the Gov’t wants to redact or summarize it, and it’ll inherently take a very long time (certainly not before the election). ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5930 "2023-06-15T16:06:02Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > For classified evidence, first, Trump needs a lawyer with clearance to receive it. According to the [arraignment transcript](https://www.lawfareblog.com/trump-florida-arraignment-transcript-released) Chris Kise plans to stay on the case. There was speculation that he was just there because he was available and barred in Florida, but would later be replaced by another attorney. > THE COURT: Welcome to the Southern District of Florida as well. So I have a question for both of you. And you can feel free to be seated, make yourself comfortable. Are both of you here temporarily or permanently? > > MR. KISE: Permanently, Your Honor. > > MR. BLANCHE: Permanently, Your Honor. Kise presents an interesting security clearance challenge because in 2020 he **registered as a foreign agent** of Venezuela under FARA. [Here’s the form at fara.gov](https://efile.fara.gov/docs/6787-Short-Form-20200124-2.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5931 "2023-06-15T16:18:55Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > i wonder about his attorneys, he said a lot of incriminating stuff last night, they had to have known what was in the teleprompter. Why do you think his speech writers get things vetted by his attorneys? And while do you think Trump would listen to his attorneys when his writers are giving him big applause lines? People seem to think that lawyers have complete control over what their clients do and say. Smart clients listen to their lawyers, but: a) Trump is not smart (at least about this sort of thing) b) Even if you are smart, you may have your reasons to ignore the advice ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5932 "2023-06-15T16:32:16Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Then it gets murky because we don’t know how the prosecution intends to handle the classified documents. To win the case, they have to prove to the jury the docs contain national defense information. So they have to let the Defense/Jury see them, but how (because of all the secrets). There is roughly three choices: > > 1. **Declassify** them and hand them over; > 2. **Redact/summarize** them using a process called CIPA - this could take a very long time regardless of whether appeals are involved; > 3. use the **silent witness rule** - Serious question, can they restrict the jury pool to people with high level security clearance, and then show them the documents? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5933 "2023-06-15T17:08:02Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Serious question, can they restrict the jury pool to people with high level security clearance, and then show them the documents? I don’t think so. The jury, as it should, will be selected in the normal way - your peers. The trial is normal, the evidence is not. The jury and Judge do not need security clearances - they are exempt and are able to see _everything_ in their capacity as a Judge or Juror. The issue is whether the Govt is willing to show them their secrets. A jury pool of only high level security people would probably be pretty pro-Gov’t, or at least biased re: that type of information. Regardless, it’s solely the prosecutions problem, not the Judge or Jury. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5934 "2023-06-15T17:26:56Z")
I just heard on the news that the Supreme Court has ruled that error in venue is not a basis for double jeopardy to attach. Prosecutors can retry a case in the correct venue if it is found to have been filed/tried in an improper venue. A sensible ruling for a change. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5935 "2023-06-15T17:42:11Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > I don’t think so. The jury, as it should, will be selected in the normal way - your peers. “A jury of one’s peers” isn’t actually a thing, in the US. It is in the UK, but there it just means that nobles will be tried by nobles and commoners will be tried by commoners. The US doesn’t have that distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5936 "2023-06-15T17:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > jury of one’s peers > > n. a guaranteed right of criminal defendants, in which “peer” means an “equal.” This has been interpreted by courts to mean that the available jurors include a broad spectrum of the population, particularly of race, national origin and gender. Jury selection may include no process which excludes those of a particular race or intentionally narrows the spectrum of possible jurors. It does not mean that women are to be tried by women, Asians by Asians, or African Americans by African Americans. > **[Legal Dictionary - Law.com](https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1079)** > > ALM's Law.com online Real Life Dictionary of the Law. The easiest-to-read, most user-friendly guide to legal terms. Use it free! ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5937 "2023-06-15T17:56:58Z")
I also feel like “jury of your peers” keeps it to average citizens, as opposed to setting up some kind of professional juror system. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5938 "2023-06-15T17:58:14Z")
More than a dozen cases about classified documents have been tried in the past couple of decades and I’ve never heard of any requiring jurors to have clearances first. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5939 "2023-06-15T18:00:20Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > He’ll also want lawyers with national security experience, and should be afforded time to find some. Why did he not have lawyers with national security experience ALREADY? This case did not come out of the blue. The government has been asking for the confidential/top secret documents back OVER TWO YEARS NOW. The FBI removed top secret documents from Trump’s property OVER TEN MONTHS AGO. Did Trump not have a freakin’ clue that maybe he should hire lawyers with national security clearance? We need to stop making excuses for his idiotic behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/5940 "2023-06-15T18:07:46Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > There’s no way that he’ll be forced to attend every proceeding. There will be a “donald trump exemption”. But other than that, and endless social media pot stirring, and flying around getting his ass sucked at his rallies, and running his endless grifts, he’ll be treated like any other defendant facing similar charges. My bet is that this trial will proceed exactly like every federal trial on classified documents and Trump will be expected to do exactly what every other defendant has to do, including being there every day during the trial. Smith’s entire point with the case is that Trump doesn’t get special treatment. The DoJ would be all over a Trump exemption for anything. I don’t know enough about the law to know whether they could take this to the 11th circuit immediately. I will bet, though, that the jurors will ask themselves why they have to attend every day while Trump doesn’t. The defense already lacks any reasonable case. Why would they pile antagonizing the jury on top of that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=296) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=298)