# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 306
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6101 "2023-06-17T15:39:12Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Obviously your average public defender can’t do it. This is a common misunderstanding. Public defenders are often the most experienced criminal attorneys in the courtrooms. They handle thousands of cases, they know the law, the process and the judges better than most private criminal attorneys. Just because you pay money to someone for representation doesn’t mean you’re getting the best representation. As @Procrustus says, a judge can call on any attorney in their jurisdiction to represent a criminal defendant. Public defenders’ offices are set up with primary public defenders, then conflict public defenders, then conflict-conflict public defenders and so on. When we ran out of names on the conflict-conflict-conflict list, we started calling members of the local bar and wheedling them into taking the case. The attorneys know the judge wouldn’t call on them if they had a different option, so for the reasons stated by @Procrustus, the attorneys always agree to represent the troublesome defendant. Into each life some rain must fall. I can tell you our private lists did include some “do not call” attorneys because they were viewed as not up to complex or high profile cases. We never called anyone we felt would be a detriment to the defendant or to the process. The last thing you want in an important trial is some inexperienced lawyer screwing up the case. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6102 "2023-06-17T15:57:53Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This is not rational behavior. But this [is rather rational, no?](https://twitter.com/goldpearl9/status/1670091796926324737/photo/1) I mean, he isn’t saying that he isnt fucked and is in fact on the verge of triumph, is he? No. This is how he behaves when off camera. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6103 "2023-06-17T16:13:17Z")
Sorry for the preceding post. I didn’t notice Aspenglow’s warning about Trump’s state of mind before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6104 "2023-06-17T16:24:43Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This is a common misunderstanding. Public defenders are often the most experienced criminal attorneys in the courtrooms. Well, sometimes. And sometimes they’re folks who don’t know how to do anything but to always advise their clients to take a plea deal, because obviously if they arrested you, they’re always going to be able to find you guilty. I would hope that the highly experienced and competent sort you describe are much more common, but that other sort does exist. And while there are some lawyers who are so disgusted by Trump that they’d refuse to represent him, there’s a very significant fraction of the population who’s not disgusted with him, and I would expect that that leaves a significant number of lawyers. The question then is just whether there’s a correlation between the lawyers willing to work with Trump, and the incompetent ones. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6105 "2023-06-17T16:43:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, sometimes. And sometimes they’re folks who don’t know how to do anything but to always advise their clients to take a plea deal, because obviously if they arrested you, they’re always going to be able to find you guilty. My experience is different. I worked for a public defenders’ office for several years. All the attorneys where I worked were dedicated to doing the best job they could within the constraints of limited funding and time resources. I will also add that a lot of their clients believed they had defenses to their charges that didn’t exist in reality, and that’s something that most defense attorneys have to overcome. Including Trump’s. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6106 "2023-06-17T17:14:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Trump lawyer Alina Habba thinks she gets to do discovery depositions of government witnesses. That happens in civil lawsuits, but that’s not a thing in criminal cases. Defense attorneys get to cross-examine witnesses at trial. There are no pre-trial discovery depositions in criminal trials. Actually, there are pretrial depositions in criminal trials in Florida when it’s a felony. But that would be the state’s circuit courts, operating under Florida’s criminal procedure. Federal courts are a different thing. > [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Judge Cannon and Trump are probably at the peak of the “relationship” (based on previous rulings Cannon seems to favor him). I’m going to throw out a different take, equally speculative. She doesn’t like donald personally. She’s well aware that he’s a creep, and she might even find him gross. But, she’s a hard right federalist. So she believes strongly in certain legal concepts, like the unitary executive (I.e. all executive branch power rests solely with the president) and separation of powers. So, when initially presented with a lawsuit by a former president regarding his records, her instinct was to bend over backwards to ensure that a president is given as much latitude as she can find in the law. But she was plainly wrong. The appellate court shot her down, and in so doing made one thing plain: this individual is to be treated like any other defendant. And that may be an easy pill to swallow, since he is _no longer_ in the role of president, and since he’s an obnoxious twat as well. Besides, she may feel that being associated with donald - when she may have instead intended to associate herself with the federalist society, or some other right wing movement - is an insult to her personally. And so she may play this case exactly by the book, notwithstanding those earlier rulings. Again, just wild speculation on my part. But that seems to be all we have about her motives and intent. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6107 "2023-06-17T17:16:25Z")
Sorry @Aspenglow and @Procrustus-I should clarify-I meant that public defenders can’t usually handle the Top Secret document aspect of the case. Can a PD handle Trump? More than likely. Do they deserve to? No. No one does. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6108 "2023-06-17T17:18:30Z")
On the issue of Election Interference… Why doesn’t anyone point out that Trump is not currently a candidate for any Federal office? True, he is vying for the Republican nomination, but that won’t be decided until individual state’s minor elections (if at that) and the Republican National Convention has made their decision. I know Trump cites polls indicating he is leading the race and therefore (at best) a presumptive nominee, but technically, as much as a Federal Election is concerned, Trump is no more a candidate for office than any other native-born US citizen who is 35 years of age or older who has resided in the US for 14 years or more. It would seem since it is so obvious the Election Interference angle is so absurdly untenable that nobody capable of rational thought could give it any… Oh, nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6109 "2023-06-17T17:24:36Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > I should clarify-I meant that public defenders can’t usually handle the Top Secret document aspect of the case. I am under the impression that you don’t have to already possess classified clearance, and that there is a procedure to obtain one for this case (I think that’s what Judge Cannon asked them to do on Friday) Other than a past that almost certainly includes drug use, public defenders should be able to qualify. 😉 Federal Defenders, in particular, are typically first rate lawyers with impressive credentials. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6110 "2023-06-17T18:47:21Z")
Stupid ot question: are there such things as career public defenders? I guess I always pictured them as PDs right out of law school until something better comes along. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6111 "2023-06-17T18:53:13Z")
Yes, there are. I have friends who’ve been PDs for decades because they think it’s morally and societally important. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6112 "2023-06-17T18:55:06Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Yes, there are. I have friends wo’ve been PDs for decades because they think it’s morally and societally important. - This. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6113 "2023-06-17T19:14:52Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Yes, there are. I have friends who’ve been PDs for decades because they think it’s morally and societally importan Yes. I’d estimate 2/3 of the staff stay for 3-5 years, and the rest considerably longer (in this area, I’m sure it varies) Federal Public defenders tend to be more experienced and a higher percentage are “career” types. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6114 "2023-06-17T19:39:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, sometimes. And sometimes they’re folks who don’t know how to do anything but to always advise their clients to take a plea deal, because obviously if they arrested you, they’re always going to be able to find you guilty. What is this based on? Do you have anything to back it up? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6115 "2023-06-17T19:49:18Z")
Wouldn’t say that they are typical, but I would say that it happens. > **[Massive Court Corruption - Heather Chesnut and Daniel Torrence, SLLDA](https://mydefenseguide.org/massive-court-corruption/)** > > Defense attorneys Heather J. Chesnut and Daniel Torrence put their own client in jail for refusing to plea guilty and demanding a jury-trial. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6116 "2023-06-17T19:57:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Wouldn’t say that they are typical, but I would say that it happens. Do you think that article is about public defenders, “Who don’t know how to do anything but to always advise their clients to take a plea deal”? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6117 "2023-06-17T20:03:10Z")
I suppose not, they know how to extort their client into taking a plea deal as well, if the client ignores their advice. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6118 "2023-06-17T20:03:26Z")
Moderating: The public defender discussion began as a way of fighting ignorance about common misunderstandings but is becoming a distraction to this thread. Let’s all drop it, please. (Including me.) Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6119 "2023-06-17T20:19:30Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Seriously, we’ve all known people (usually women) who believe that _they_ can 1) get through to, 2) manage, 3) bring into line the PITA guy that no one else can handle. That they have the gift and/or Magic Touch. And then they get popped in the nose again by their abuser. Not making light of it. It’s a sad fact. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6120 "2023-06-17T20:50:12Z")
Who needs delays when you’re perfectly innocent. Trump needs to get this trial over and done with as fast as possible so he can be exonerated and get on with the business of getting elected President. Is there any way we could maybe get MAGA world to embrace this sentiment? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=305) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=307)