# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 314
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6261 "2023-06-20T15:08:30Z")
August 14… Isn’t that the same time that a grand jury is supposed to convene in the Georgia case? ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6262 "2023-06-20T15:12:33Z")
I think the trial date is based on a routine calculation from the [Speed Trial Act:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act) > Trial must commence within 70 days from the date the information or indictment was filed, or from the date the defendant appears before an officer of the court in which the charge is pending, whichever is later. So kind of formulaic. But boilerplate Orders from Judge Cannon is a good thing. The Order also included Voir Dire stuff (10 questions per side), but from what I’m reading the entire Order was very boilerplate. Again, a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6263 "2023-06-20T15:14:23Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > But boilerplate Orders from Judge Cannon is a good thing. Maybe it’s a sign that Cannon doesn’t want to screw around this time. Maybe her senior judges are strongly advising her not to screw around. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6264 "2023-06-20T15:18:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There is really not much work for the defence team to do. The jury consultants Trump’s team hires will have plenty to do. I think it may be won or lost at voir dire. But I don’t disagree about Trump’s team as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6265 "2023-06-20T15:19:34Z")
Maybe. She really did do some odd stuff in the civil trial with the special master, so we’re right to be worried. However, in this case, there is going to be _so many opportunities_ to issue favorable rulings on dismissing the entire case (not likely), dismissing the search warrant (not likely), but also real could go either way important evidentiary issues, she might just wait for those times. Everyone gets bad rulings, but hopefully there is balance. We’ll find out. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6266 "2023-06-20T15:21:33Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > However, in this case, there is going to be _so many opportunities_ to issue favorable rulings on dismissing the entire case (not likely), dismissing the search warrant (not likely), but also real could go either way important evidentiary issues, she might just wait for those times. Everyone gets bad rulings, but hopefully there is balance. We’ll find out. This, exactly. I didn’t expect her to screw around with statutory requirements like setting a speedy trial date. We’ll know more when the pretrial motions are filed and ruled on. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6267 "2023-06-20T15:24:45Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Holy moly - I had missed that the trial date had been set and set so soon (14 August). That can’t be good for the defence, can it? A speedy trial is in everyone’s interests. Win or lose, this really needs to be settled before voting starts in the primaries. Everyone needs to know if they’re voting for a convicted criminal or not. And if Trump really thinks he can win this, he’ll want that vindication before voting starts. Taking a victory lap would appeal to his vanity, while also driving out more voters for his side. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6268 "2023-06-20T15:35:15Z")
Question for trial lawyers–in the excellent Donald Westlake book, _Baby Would I Lie_ the defendant’s lawyers in a murder case empanel a shadow jury that watches each day of the trial the evening of and gives their reactions to the evidence. Does this really happen? I could see this being common in high-profile cases like this one. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6269 "2023-06-20T15:40:27Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I wasn’t specifically thinking of a trial context. But if a standard civil case jury instruction says to make, or consider making, a negative inference, when the defendant didn’t testify, I disagree. Make the instruction fair to Trump, and all others. A criminal trial doesn’t work the same way as a civil trial. In a criminal trial, a defendant has the right to remain silent and the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant committed the crime which is a rather high bar. In a civil trial, most juries come to a decision based on the preponderance of evidence. What I’ve heard one lawyer describe as “50% plus a feather.” There is no constitutional right to remain silent during a civil trial. If a defendant refuses to testify in a civil trial, the jury is free to consider this makes the testimonies of the plaintiff and their witnesses more credible. In Trump’s particular case, he essentially waived any defense during his defamation suit. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6270 "2023-06-20T15:41:05Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > > > Holy moly - I had missed that the trial date had been set and set so soon (14 August). That can’t be good for the defence, can it? > > A speedy trial is in everyone’s interests. Win or lose, this really needs to be settled before voting starts in the primaries. Everyone needs to know if they’re voting for a convicted criminal or not. If even one poster here pops up and says their 11/2024 vote for Biden or Trump will depend on the verdicts, I will take this back, but: I think we all have enough information without knowing the verdicts. And that’s good, because I doubt it will be settled before the first primary (likely 1/25/24). Even if there was one guilty verdict by then, it would be appealed. And given the current Supreme Court, I don’t see how the appeal outcome could be considered certain. Another reason we won’t know in January: A hung jury, and retrial, is much more likely than in the average jury trial. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6271 "2023-06-20T15:44:37Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > If even one poster here pops up and says their 11/2024 vote for Biden or Trump will depend on the verdicts, I will take this back, but: I think we all have enough information without knowing the verdicts. And if the election was decided based on the votes of people here, that might matter. But there’s millions of other people out there voting, and it wouldn’t take much of a swing in a few states to flip the final result. A few thousand Trump voters finally coming to their senses (or just giving up) vs. a few thousand Trump voters celebrating his vindication could make all the difference. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6272 "2023-06-20T15:59:58Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Question for trial lawyers–in the excellent Donald Westlake book, _Baby Would I Lie_ the defendant’s lawyers in a murder case empanel a shadow jury that watches each day of the trial the evening of and gives their reactions to the evidence. Does this really happen? I could see this being common in high-profile cases like this one. That was the premise of the TV series [Bull](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5827228/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_bull). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6273 "2023-06-20T16:11:51Z")
> [@Tride](#): > > Question for trial lawyers–in the excellent Donald Westlake book, _Baby Would I Lie_ the defendant’s lawyers in a murder case empanel a shadow jury that watches each day of the trial the evening of and gives their reactions to the evidence. Does this really happen? Yes, but it’s rare. Think Chevron or Monsanto cases. The problem is that there’s not a lot you can do with that information. I suppose it doesn’t hurt, but you’re already committed by that point and can’t make too many adjustments. What is far more common is a “focus group” before trial to test out different themes and witnesses. I would expect the defense would do that in this case. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6274 "2023-06-20T16:25:32Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > . . . it wouldn’t take much of a swing in a few states to flip the final result. A few thousand Trump voters finally coming to their senses (or just giving up) vs. a few thousand Trump voters celebrating his vindication could make all the difference. We are seeing a Latin Americanization of U.S. politics, so this is relevant: [From prison to the presidency: Brazil’s Lula rises from ashes](https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20221031-from-prison-to-triumphant-return-brazil-s-lula-rises-from-ashes) > [@](#): > > He was jailed in 2018, the year Bolsonaro won. He spent more than 18 months in prison before being freed pending appeal. > > His convictions were thrown out last year by the Supreme Court, which found the lead judge on the case was biased. > > However, he was not exonerated. Many Brazilians remain traumatized by the scale of the corruption scandal. While many others have fond memories of economic prosperity under his rule, others voted for him merely to see the back of Bolsonaro. There really are swing voters in the U.S., and I do lean towards the idea that if Trump lost all his cases and was in prison, and there were no appeals in the news, some would swing against him. But if it seems like juries disagree, or maybe he about to be freed, swing voters will go back to wondering if their neighbor, who says Trump is a heroic victim, getting treated worse than Biden without having done worse, is on to something. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6275 "2023-06-20T16:53:45Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It’s a high wire act when prosecutors go this route – no recourse if they get a squirrel jury. Ha, love that – a “squirrel jury.” I’m assuming that’s a technical term. 🙃 Well, we’ll certainly hope we don’t get one _here._ ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6276 "2023-06-20T21:40:05Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Ha, love that – a “squirrel jury.” I’m assuming that’s a technical term. 🙃 Well, we’ll certainly hope we don’t get one _here._ That would be nuts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6277 "2023-06-20T22:08:48Z")
trumps lawyers must be going crazy- he again admitted he was guilty- > **[Trump’s Fox News interview was a defense attorney’s nightmare](https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/6/20/23767291/trump-bret-baier-fox-news-indictment-documents)** > > The former president offered a confusing, and likely damaging, defense of his latest indictment. _Trump’s statements, many of which were meandering and difficult to follow, both provided a muddled defense, and may have offered fodder to reinforce some of the charges against him. By acknowledging that he had the documents in his possession and that he had reasons for not returning them promptly, Trump’s statements corroborated allegations he’s charged with regarding mishandling these materials._ Good reading on that article. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6278 "2023-06-20T22:18:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > trumps lawyers must be going crazy- he again admitted he was guilty- If the evidence against you is strong enough already then maybe your best legal maneuver is to become President and try to pardon yourself from prison? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6279 "2023-06-20T22:21:10Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If the evidence against you is strong enough already then maybe your best legal maneuver is to become President and try to pardon yourself from prison? It is debatable whether or not you can pardon yourself. > **[Can a president pardon himself?](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-a-president-pardon-himself/)** > > It's a question that's perhaps less theoretical with the first-ever federal prosecution of a former president who's seeking the office again. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6280 "2023-06-20T22:26:54Z")
Based on previous cases, there’s an argument that Trump thinks his appointees in the judiciary will stay loyal to him and make outlandish rulings in his favor. Of course, also based on previous cases, Trump’s an idiot who will provide evidence against himself for no reason past just being that much of an idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=313) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=315)