# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 316
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6301 "2023-06-21T01:24:48Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > If you CAN afford a lawyer but can’t get one would a public defender be assigned to the case (maybe with a price)? I’ve seen that happen. A good judge won’t allow “failure to find a lawyer” to slow things down. And, as far as I know, he does have lawyers already. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6302 "2023-06-21T01:30:55Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > What happens if he just keeps firing and hiring lawyers to delay the trial? There might be a point where Cannon won’t allow Trump to fire his lawyer or for his lawyer to quit. Trusty and Rowley got out when they could. ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6303 "2023-06-21T02:14:39Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > And, as far as I know, he does have lawyers already. Who are the lucky contestants? All of my googling only comes up with ex-lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6304 "2023-06-21T02:21:04Z")
_Rolling Stone_ article indicates that people in Trump World are concerned that Mark Meadows has turned stoolie on Trump. Trump’s view? > [@](#): > > Both sources independently tell _Rolling Stone_ that when the topic has come up within the past several months, Trump has at times said that he doesn’t know what Meadows is doing, adding that **it would be a “shame” if the MAGAland rumors were true**. Yes, Don ~~Corleone~~ Trump > **[Team Trump Suspects His Former Chief of Staff Is a 'Rat'](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/donald-trump-indictment-mark-meadows-jack-smith-1234774363/)** > > Trump is sending his attorneys and allies on 'fact-finding' missions about what Mark Meadows is up to. They've returned with no firm answers. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6305 "2023-06-21T02:31:03Z")
> [@dougrb](#): > > Who are the lucky contestants? Epshteyn is surely still there. The other lawyers left partially because they couldn’t stand him. > **[Months of distrust inside Trump legal team led to top lawyer’s departure](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/trump-lawyers-resign-criminal-investigation)** > > Exclusive: Two Trump lawyers considered a ‘murder-suicide pact’ where one would resign if the other was fired > The turmoil has revolved around hostility among the lawyers on the legal team who have come to distrust each other as well as their hostility directed at Epshteyn, over what they regard as his oversight of the legal work and gatekeeping direct access to the former president. > > In one instance, the clashes became so acute that some of the lawyers agreed to a so-called “murder-suicide” pact where if Parlatore got fired, others would resign in solidarity. And as some of the lawyers tried to exclude Epshteyn, they withheld information from co-counsel who they suspected might brief him. > > … > > But an eventual attempt to remove Epshteyn from the case ended in failure, and Epshteyn remains a trusted member of Trump’s inner circle. The months of worsening relations that led to that moment were described to the Guardian by six people familiar with the situation. There are also Blanche and Kise. > **[Trump attorney quits another case, cites ‘irreconcilable differences’](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/16/trump-attorney-trusty-resigns-00102408)** > > The departure of Jim Trusty from a defamation case that Trump filed is the latest shake-up in his legal team. > Trump appeared at his arraignment Tuesday with attorneys Todd Blanche and Christopher Kise, but he’s expected to add an additional firm as the proceedings get underway. There’s also Alina Habba, though I’m not sure how much direct work she’s doing on the case. Her role mainly seems to be representing him as a lawyer to the public. I don’t think she’s actually spending any time in the courtroom. > **[Trump lawyer: 'There is context to everything'](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/11/trump-lawyer-alina-habba-00101415)** > > Alina Habba also said there's no way the former president would ever accept a plea deal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6306 "2023-06-21T03:12:38Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > What happens if he just keeps firing and hiring lawyers to delay the trial? I don’t know if this is the case in the US, but in Canada if the judge is convinced that you’re running through lawyers like Kleenex to avoid going to trial, the judge can declare that you’re defending yourself. I saw it happen with one guy who dismissed his 6th legal aid / Court appointed counsel during his murder trial. He had to run the rest of his case on his own. [Hint: didn’t end well for him.] ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6307 "2023-06-21T04:02:04Z")
That’s as it should be, but Team Trump won’t be dealing with the sorts of judges we have in Canada, they’ll be dealing with Loose Cannon. Maybe she’ll cut through all the pretenses and offer to represent him herself while continuing to preside as judge. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6308 "2023-06-21T04:08:47Z")
I wonder if many people, after they see how commoners with docs are swat teamed and locked away swiftly, will come to the conclusion that, since trump was free for 2 years prior to indictment (and is _still_ free!), that this case is not that big of a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6309 "2023-06-21T04:23:41Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I do think it’s going to take some time to percolate down through the MAGA universe. Some will never see the reality. I suspect the vast majority of the actual MAGA crowd won’t. But all it may take is a couple percent to sit out the election and never even mind the swing voters, whoever they may be. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6310 "2023-06-21T05:36:51Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > He doesn’t have to be _that_ off his rocker, just incoherent. And he’s pretty far down that path, IMHO But… But… But… Person, Woman, Man, Camera TV! > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > And what would be the reaction in MAGAworld? I assume many allusions to “crazy like a fox”, "“5-dimensional chess” and that he’s faking it to lull the Libs into a false sense of security. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > In that case, the Supreme Court gave a very strict interpretation to a federal anti-corruption law that had some ambiguities, and if I recall correctly, hadn’t had many cases. Also if we’re going to be cynical about it certain members of the court were doing the same thing that McDonnell was doing and so might not have wanted it to be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6311 "2023-06-21T06:06:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I don’t know if this is the case in the US, but in Canada if the judge is convinced that you’re running through lawyers like Kleenex to avoid going to trial, the judge can declare that you’re defending yourself. Yes, but we don’t have public defenders, as you know. If you can’t afford one, you can apply for Legal Aid, and have a lawyer assigned to you, but it’s not quite the same as a public defender in the US. We do allow “duty counsel” (i.e. “lawyer for today only”) under Legal Aid, and I’ve certainly done that, many times. Still, you are correct: there will come a time when the judge says, “It’s time to fish or cut bait,” and you either get a lawyer, or self-represent. > [@wolfpup](#): > > That’s as it should be, but Team Trump won’t be dealing with the sorts of judges we have in Canada, they’ll be dealing with Loose Cannon. Maybe she’ll cut through all the pretenses and offer to represent him herself while continuing to preside as judge. 😆 I know you’re having a little fun, but I doubt that. Judge Cannon will have to keep up the veneer of impartiality, no matter how transparent it is. As such, she cannot represent Trump. My best guess is that even if he’s left with only one lawyer, that one lawyer would be able to call in public defenders to help out. This kind of a matter requires a team of lawyers, and if no private lawyers are willing to join the team, then I can see the prosecution and the judge allowing public defenders to help represent Trump. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6312 "2023-06-21T08:16:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > …the judge can declare that you’re defending yourself. The Spectacle of Donald representing himself… Let me take a moment to picture that. The mind boggles. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6313 "2023-06-21T09:29:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Boy oh boy, he’s really decompensating, isn’t he? By the time this gets to trial, will he even be [competent](https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/defense/competency-to-stand-trial/) under the Sixth Amendment? > > > **Federal and state law** require that a person must be **competent** in order to **stand trial** for a criminal charge. **Competency** means that a defendant understands the nature of the court process. This includes a grasp of the charges and parties involved. Competency ensures that the criminal defendant can rationally assist in their own defense. > > > > This requirement is protected by the **Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution**. The amendment guarantees a fair trial to everyone charged with a crime. Incompetency is deemed unfair to a defendant because an incompetent person lacks the fitness to stand trial and would not be able to help in defending charges against them. > > Can you imagine the chaos if he gets so bad just before or during trial that the judge has to hold a competency hearing? > > > The trial **resumes** if the accused is found to be competent. A finding of incompetency means that the defendant is committed to an institute for **psychiatric treatment**. > > > > A trial can begin at a later date if the accused **regains adjudicative competence**. If they do not, then the medical institute that they are committed to continues with its care. More worrisome still: if judged incompetent to stand trial and institutionalized, will he still argue that he should be permitted to run a campaign for the presidency from within the institution? After all there’s nothing in the rule book that says a Golden Retriever _can’t_ play basketball. I mean, well, you get it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6314 "2023-06-21T09:34:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > More worrisome still: if judged incompetent to stand trial and institutionalized, will he still argue that he should be permitted to run a campaign for the presidency from within the institution? [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVJeu5xXEAAZomG.jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVJeu5xXEAAZomG.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6315 "2023-06-21T09:43:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > will he still argue that he should be permitted to run a campaign for the presidency from within the institution? I’m pretty sure he’d be right. You can run a campaign from jail, a mental institution, or the space station. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6316 "2023-06-21T09:50:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > if judged incompetent to stand trial and institutionalized, will he still argue that he should be permitted to run a campaign for the presidency from within the institution? Don’t you know that he will cite his institutionalization as a proof of his mental acuity? “I have been closely examined by the world’s finest doctors and they have concluded that I am NOT psychotic and they have recommended that I should NOT be shot up with drugs used to treat psychosis. Can Crazy Joe Biden make the same claim?” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6317 "2023-06-21T10:08:03Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > For these proceedings, there is a hearing, but rarely does anyone testify, and not the defendant. Reports are submitted to the court by the psychiatric evaluators, and the judge issues a ruling on the defendant’s competence based on those. _You can’t do that to me! I already aced MAN, WOMAN, PERSON, CAMERA, TV! I aced that bigly! Making me do it again is Double Jeopardy!_ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6318 "2023-06-21T10:32:25Z")
"One day a couple orderlies came up to me. Big men, big men. You could tell they’d never skipped a meal. One of them said, Mr. President, how did you do it? Do what? How did you eat two scoops of mashed potatoes for dinner? Nobody’s ever eaten two scoops. Not even us. And they had tears in their eyes and thanked me for eating my whole dinner. And that’s how I would have prevented Russia from invading Ukraine. " ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6319 "2023-06-21T10:53:04Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > …the judge can declare that you’re defending yourself. > > The Spectacle of Donald representing himself… > > Let me take a moment to picture that. > > The mind boggles. That opens up the possibility of being judged not guilty by reason of insanity. It’s literally true that Trump was too feeble-minded to understand the implications of hauling around pallets of classified documents and storing them in ballrooms and bathrooms. A person with normal cognitive understanding of the world – even a narcissistic sociopath – would not have done what Trump did. Still, the risk to Trump is that being a feeble-minded idiot may not rise to the legal standard of insanity. But it’s a close call. The judgment often hinges on the ability to tell right from wrong, which Trump clearly cannot. These considerations do, however, while leaving Trump’s legal situation uncertain, shed considerable light on the question of whether a feeble-minded moron who can’t tell right from wrong should be president of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6320 "2023-06-21T10:55:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > whether a feeble-minded moron who can’t tell right from wrong should be president of the United States. - He’s a man of his people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=315) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=317)