# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 338
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6741 "2023-07-11T14:59:57Z")
Yes, but I don’t think that’s a compelling reason for the rest of us to go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6742 "2023-07-11T15:05:02Z")
“Your honor, that’s the week the Metal Gear Solid Master Collection comes out. I move for a three month continuance.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6743 "2023-07-11T15:05:39Z")
It’s more than 31 documents, it’s also a bunch of audio recordings and testimonials and other mountains of evidence proving Trump’s knowing and willful disregard for the law. I believe them when they say it’s a lot, I don’t believe them when they say they need more time to mount a defense. It’s plenty of time to mount **a** defense, but no amount of delays is going to be enough for a _good_ one. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6744 "2023-07-11T15:10:06Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > As far as the “My God, there’s a shit-ton of stuff we need to review, we need time” part of the filing, aren’t there just certain specific documents in play, like 31 of them? From WaPo > Special counsel Jack Smith has argued for a December trial date in court papers, saying the case “involves straightforward theories of liability, and does not present novel questions of fact or law.” > > Trump’s lawyers disagreed, arguing the case hinges on untested legal questions about the Presidential Records Act. Again with the Presidential Records Act! He hasn’t been charged with any violations of the PRA, and no part of the PRA is a defense to what he _has_ been charged with. As Straocaster points out, it’s a straightforward matter of a simple and well documented violation including 31 documents. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6745 "2023-07-11T15:10:18Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Also, if I’m not mistaken, IANAL but I thought the general legal principle was our legal system does not want to delay things unnecessarily. > **[Justice delayed is justice denied](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_delayed_is_justice_denied)** > > "Justice delayed is justice denied" is a legal maxim. It means that if legal redress or equitable relief to an injured party is available, but is not forthcoming in a timely fashion, it is effectively the same as having no remedy at all. > This principle is the basis for the right to a speedy trial and similar rights which are meant to expedite the legal system, because of the unfairness for the injured party who sustained the injury having little hope for timely and effective remedy and resolutio... ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6746 "2023-07-11T15:13:36Z")
There’s also the Sixth Amendment of the US Constitution. > In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6747 "2023-07-11T15:15:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial “BUT I’M NOT ENJOYING IT! fAKE nEWS! tHE DERP STAT IS TRYING TO TELL ME TO ENJOY RAPE!” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6748 "2023-07-11T15:15:45Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > We all knew he’d attempt to delay. It’ll be enlightening to see how Cannon rules on this. This, this, this. * * * I don’t know how much time is reasonable to take to litigate every sensitive information exhibit, but 31 exhibits in a trial is a doddle. Even if you add in the audio recordings and testimony, little of that is reviewable. It’s just standard trial fare. Complex trials have hundreds, even thousands of exhibits. Assuming an 18-month delay to past the election of 2024, that works out to roughly 17 days of argument per sensitive-national-secrets exhibit. Really? Just doesn’t happen. And a lot of what the judge rules for how to handle one of those will apply to how others will be handled, too. It’s ridiculous. Also, this trial has a time estimate of about 3 weeks – which I noticed the defense did not dispute. Even if one applies the usual thumb-licking judicial standard of doubling the time estimate to 6 weeks, that’s not a long trial. A long trial is 6 months. So far as I can tell, there’s no good basis for a continuance of the duration being asked for by the Trump/Nauta attorneys. But I’ll bet Judge Cannon gives it to them. Or if she doesn’t, she will as time goes on. (I’d love to be wrong on this one, but I don’t view her as a redeemable actor.) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6749 "2023-07-11T15:17:25Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I don’t know how much time is reasonable to take to litigate every sensitive information exhibit, but 31 exhibits in a trial is a doddle. Even if you add in the audio recordings and testimony, little of that is reviewable. It’s just standard trial fare. > > Complex trials have hundreds, even thousands of exhibits. Assuming an 18-month delay to past the election of 2024, that works out to roughly 17 days of argument per sensitive-national-secrets exhibit. Really? Just doesn’t happen. And a lot of what the judge rules for how to handle one of those will apply to how others will be handled, too. It’s ridiculous. Thank you for the informed perspective. Most of us aren’t familiar with what is standard in a long and complicated trial vs your shorter and simpler ones. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6750 "2023-07-11T15:20:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Also, this trial has a time estimate of about 3 weeks – which I noticed the defense did not dispute. Even if one applies the usual thumb-licking judicial standard of doubling the time estimate to 6 weeks, that’s not a long trial. A long trial is 6 months. Your California experience is showing. 🙂 Most jurisdictions complete trials much faster than they do in California. (not sure why)(OJ’s trial would have been 6 weeks in Seattle, at most). The case could be tried in three weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6751 "2023-07-11T15:21:45Z")
I always figured the greatest delay in this trial was going to be the time it will take for Cannon to get up to speed on how classified/sensitive national security documents can/must be handled in a public trial. > [@Procrustus](#): > > Your California experience is showing. 🙂 LOL, it usually does. And of course your point shows that there is even less of a basis for delay than the Trump/Nauta team asserts! ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6752 "2023-07-11T15:25:31Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Want to run for president without fighting prosecution? Maybe don’t commit felonies. This of course assumes that he’s guilty as charged. I believe in innocent until proved guilty. There should be a balancing of the demands of justice and democracy. The best way to do it here is speedy trials, and for any additional indictments, for alleged offenses committed in prior years, to come very soon. Indictment and trial delay is generally a bad idea because quicker punishment, for proven charges, makes for slightly greater deterrence. Of course, delaying until Trump could potentially self-pardon wouldn’t help with deterrence either. I know I’m a minority here, but it seems to me that enthusiasm over almost anyone, let alone your political opponent, going to prison is not a good look. If the system results in that, fine. But be careful what you wish for. A prison sentence would harm Trump’s nomination chances. GOP party bosses, looking for excuses to get rid of him, might even use it to say he’s disqualified. And while Trump is the front-runner all around now, it would be even harder for Biden to defeat a middle-aged Republican. And they might serve eight years. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6753 "2023-07-11T15:28:37Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > But be careful what you wish for. A prison sentence would harm Trump’s nomination chances. GOP party bosses, looking for excuses to get rid of him, might even use it to say he’s disqualified. Nonetheless, guilty people should be convicted and suffer the consequences. On balance, it would be good for the country for Trump to be held accountable for his crimes, even if your thesis is correct and it increases the chance of a Republican beating Biden in '24. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6754 "2023-07-11T15:40:19Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Again with the Presidential Records Act! He hasn’t been charged with any violations of the PRA, and no part of the PRA is a defense to what he _has_ been charged with. Yeah, but that’s something people have probably heard of or at least bumped into knowing. They’re pandering to the low-information watcher, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6755 "2023-07-11T15:41:20Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > Want to run for president without fighting prosecution? Maybe don’t commit felonies. > > This of course assumes that he’s guilty as charged. Yes, I was being somewhat flip. And I’m also aware that future DOJs could conceivably muster bullshit charges against potential rivals in hopes of undermining their campaigns, but that ain’t what’s happening here. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > … enthusiasm over almost anyone, let alone your political opponent, going to prison is not a good look. I dunno, I like it when people found guilty of felonies go to prison. Especially when said felonies involve the possibility of state secrets being sold to foreign adversaries. YMMV. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > A prison sentence would harm Trump’s nomination chances. GOP party bosses, looking for excuses to get rid of him, might even use it to say he’s disqualified. And while Trump is the front-runner all around now, it would be even harder for Biden to defeat a middle-aged Republican. And they might serve eight years. 100% agreed. Still worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6756 "2023-07-11T15:47:53Z")
> [@](#): > > " Former President Donald Trump is asking a judge to delay setting a trial date in his [classified documents case](https://www.npr.org/2023/06/13/1181749734/trump-court-appearance-miami-classified-documents), citing the extraordinary nature of a prosecution that could happen during the 2024 presidential race and what his lawyers cast as complex legal issues. Is that quote literally correct? Trump is not asking to delay the trial, he’s asking to delay the decision to set a date for the trial. That would have the effect of delaying the actual trial, but that’s not what I’m getting at. It seems like the question at issue, for both sides, is “how long will it take you to be ready for the trial?” If the answer is “six months”, then the trial should start in six months. If the answer is “nine months”, then the trail can begin in nine months. It seems like Trump’s team is essentially saying “we don’t know how long it will take us to be ready, so don’t even choose a date, yet.” Is that acceptable to the court? Trump’s lawyers know what he’s charged with. They know the evidence against him. What prevents them, at this point, from knowing how much time they need to prepare? How much of a delay are they asking for before setting the trial date; how long will it take them to decide how long it will take them to be ready for trial? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6757 "2023-07-11T15:50:14Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yes, I was being somewhat flip. And I’m also aware that future DOJs could conceivably muster bullshit charges against potential rivals in hopes of undermining their campaigns, but that ain’t what’s happening here. And in such a case, a speedy trial is actually in the candidate’s best interests. I mean, if you could prove in a court of law that there really is a massive, politically-motivated, deep-state plot to derail your candidacy, that would give you a huge bump in your polling numbers. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6758 "2023-07-11T16:02:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It seems like Trump’s team is essentially saying “we don’t know how long it will take us to be ready, so don’t even choose a date, yet.” I’m wondering this, too. Would some knowledgeable legal eagle address @Robot_Arm’s disturbing question. And the likelihood of Cannon going along with this request? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6759 "2023-07-11T16:06:06Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > Yes, I was being somewhat flip. And I’m also aware that future DOJs could conceivably muster bullshit charges against potential rivals in hopes of undermining their campaigns, but that ain’t what’s happening here. > > And in such a case, a speedy trial is actually in the candidate’s best interests. I mean, if you could prove in a court of law that there really is a massive, politically-motivated, deep-state plot to derail your candidacy, that would give you a huge bump in your polling numbers. That’s an excellent point. If Trump truly thinks this is all just political bullshit with no basis in reality, why not prove it as soon as he can? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/6760 "2023-07-11T16:12:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How much of a delay are they asking for before setting the trial date; how long will it take them to decide how long it will take them to be ready for trial? Indefinite. The filing says “postpone initial consideration of any rescheduled trial date until after substantive motions have been presented and adjudicated”. It also mentions Trump is the current frontrunner for GOP nominee and both he and Nauta will be challenged to find time for prep for trial until after Nov '24. And they mention all the other trials Trump is dealing with and claim December is just too soon to adequately prepare. “We’ll be really too busy to deal with this particular legal issue” seems like an odd note, but there you go. Basically, they’re implicitly asking that things get delayed until well after Nov '24 but they haven’t explicitly requested any specific timeframe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=337) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=339)