# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 351
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7001 "2023-07-23T16:31:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Parents who give toddlers everything they ask for in a desperate attempt to keep them from throwing tantrums don’t end up with a happy toddler. I am missing how Trump asking to be excused from trial presence, while running for office, would be immature. In the New York case, at least, there is no question he can ask for it: [N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law § 340.50](https://casetext.com/statute/consolidated-laws-of-new-york/chapter-criminal-procedure/part-2-the-principal-proceedings/title-k-prosecution-of-informations-in-local-criminal-courts-plea-to-sentence/article-340-pre-trial-proceedings/section-34050-defendants-presence-at-trial) > [@](#): > > On motion of a defendant represented by counsel, the court may, in the absence of an objection by the people, issue an order dispensing with the requirement that the defendant be personally present at trial. It may be that the prosecutor, looking for a dramatic moment when a witness can be asked: “Do you see the man who was waving around that document in this courtroom,” will object. But I think that would be a bad prosecutorial move because witnesses may speak more freely without such a powerful man as Donald Trump scowling at them. [In California](https://www.greghillassociates.com/must-defendant-be-present-in-court-if-there-is-a-trial.html), if the prosecution was to object to defendant trial presence waiver on grounds of identification, the defense can offer a stipulation that the defendant has been correctly identified. I know, he won’t face trial there, but I mention because it seems almost common sense that this should be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7002 "2023-07-23T16:42:30Z")
You know how others who have suffered similar charges are handled pre-trial? > **[Pentagon leak suspect Jack Teixeira ordered to remain in jail as he awaits trial](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/jack-teixeira-ordered-remain-jail-awaits-trial-rcna85373)** > > Prosecutors had argued that Teixeira posed “a serious flight risk” and warned that a “foreign adversary” could try to help him escape the country. Trump is already receiving very special treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7003 "2023-07-23T16:45:02Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > [In California](https://www.greghillassociates.com/must-defendant-be-present-in-court-if-there-is-a-trial.html), if the prosecution was to object to defendant trial presence waiver on grounds of identification, the defense can offer a stipulation that the defendant has been correctly identified. Do you genuinely believe there is an issue regarding identification in the federal case against Trump? I worked in a public defenders’ office and in courtrooms for 20 years in California. I can’t recall a single case where a defendant was excused from personally appearing for every hearing or trial. You’re really pushing a boulder uphill here. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7004 "2023-07-23T16:47:44Z")
@PhillyGuy, your opinion on what is fair and how things ought to be, like all opinions, is fine. Where you jump the rails is when you assert judicial temperament generally permits this or express shock that a judge would actually follow the law. It’s Federal law. Whether it’s a good law is a separate question, but Trump’s ass will be in court for the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7005 "2023-07-23T16:49:17Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I am missing how Trump asking to be excused from trial presence, while running for office, would be immature. Asking to be given special treatment that others wouldn’t in a “Do you know who I am?!” manner doesn’t strike me as particularly mature. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7006 "2023-07-23T17:22:50Z")
Trump will still be in multiple headlines for free every single day-- this is, practically speaking, the same thing **as** campaigning. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7007 "2023-07-23T17:26:41Z")
I understand the argument, on paper, how this all inconveniences Trump. But a trial, against the Deep State, before the election, is a gold mine of press. Trump will give a speech every night and everyone will cover it. All the light will be on him and all the talk will be about him. It will be bananas. The only other best case scenario for him would be a trial in August 2023 as the Judge originally set it. Since he claims he did nothing wrong, he should be acquitted. If he was acquitted, he can claim he’s “innocent” and “wrongly prosecuted by the blah blah blah”, the biggest gold mine ever and it would be true('ish). The donor money would flood in and he could almost guarantee that he’d win the election. Instead, after seeing the evidence, he wanted to push an acquittal opportunity as far out as possible. And his base just can’t figure out why… [ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou), exactly. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7008 "2023-07-23T17:30:59Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I worked in a public defenders’ office and in courtrooms for 20 years in California. I can’t recall a single case where a defendant was excused from personally appearing for every hearing or trial. My link didn’t say it was common. It did suggest that defense attorneys should request it more often, such as when the defendant has certain tattoos. In Trump cases, I think both the defense and prosecution have good reasons why the defendant should be excused (campaigning, and witness intimidation fear, respectively). ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7009 "2023-07-23T17:34:10Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > My link didn’t say it was common. No, I should think it wouldn’t. It’s so vanishingly rare as to be virtually non-existent. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > In Trump cases, I think both the defense and prosecution have good reasons why the defendant should be excused (campaigning, and witness intimidation fear, respectively). “Without fear or favor.” That’s the DOJ standard. I see no reason for them to deviate from it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7010 "2023-07-23T17:43:37Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I am missing how Trump asking to be excused from trial presence, while running for office, would be immature. Are you missing how his behavior about this (and every other) case is akin to throwing a tantrum? Are you missing how demanding that he be excused so he can campaign, when defendants are never excused so they can work other jobs, would be asking for special treatment? Are you missing how the judge should treat him like other defendants, just as a parent should treat toddlers like other children, regardless of their tantrums? I’m missing what you’re missing. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7011 "2023-07-23T18:08:19Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Asking to be given special treatment that others wouldn’t in a “Do you know who I am?!” manner doesn’t strike me as particularly mature. If I was Trump’s attorney, I wouldn’t mention the election, or otherwise say I was asking for special treatment. I’d look for any favorable federal precedent on voluntary trial attendance waiver, and if I couldn’t find that, I’d cite state precedents where the law is somewhat similarly worded. Maybe I’d be told to go back to law school, and I suppose Trump’s type of attorneys hear that from time to time 😄 > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are you missing how his behavior about this (and every other) case is akin to throwing a tantrum? Yes, and purposely, because fundamental fairness requires the justice system to make every attempt at treating similarly situated defendants, even difficult ones, equally. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7012 "2023-07-23T18:38:30Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > because fundamental fairness requires the justice system to make every attempt at treating similarly situated defendants, even difficult ones, equally. Then he should await his court date in jail. He could share a cell with Jack Teixeira, who was charged with > (1) violating the [Espionage Act of 1917](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917) by retaining and transmitting national defense information without authorization and (2) unauthorized removal and retention of classified information. and is being held in jail because > The prosecution advocated ongoing detention without bond, arguing that Teixeira posed a “serious flight risk”; the prosecution’s memo alleged Teixeira had attempted to obstruct the federal investigation by destroying evidence; might still possess secret information of “tremendous value to hostile nation states”; and had a record of making racist and violent comments ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7013 "2023-07-23T18:57:47Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Then he should await his court date in jail. He could share a cell with Jack Teixeira, who was charged with > > > (1) violating the [Espionage Act of 1917] I should have specified equally well, not equally to those now mistreated. I don’t fully know about what current secrets Teixeira may have memorized, but neither man likely has much of such. Jailing someone, who hasn’t been tried, should be a very last resort. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7014 "2023-07-23T20:30:20Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Yes, and purposely, because fundamental fairness requires the justice system to make every attempt at treating similarly situated defendants, even difficult ones, equally. …we’re _really_ talking past each other. The tantrum is because he’s being treated equally–in your prediction, being treated equally by being required to attend his own trial. If you think I’m saying the justice system should treat difficult defendants unequally, I can only ask you to reread what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7015 "2023-07-23T22:07:24Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > The judges have no latitude. The defendants are required by law to attend all phases of the trial (with the noted exceptions, which do not include “campaigning for president”). It’s not astounding that judges insist that the law be followed. People are discussing these things as if Trump is a normal person. **He is not**. We can’t predict how he will behave when things start heating up. We do know that there is no “too far” or “too low” that he won’t go. He could disrupt the proceedings, daring the judge to jail him for contempt. He could refuse to be in the courtroom, holding rallies outside. **We just don’t know.** But we do know he won’t behave like a normal person, sitting quietly in the courtroom awaiting his fate. He does not give a shit about how the judicial system is _supposed to work._ As long as he is the Republican nominee, he can be a bull in a china shop because everyone else is very carefully following the law and considering how their moves affect democracy. That works in his favor because caring about democracy or the law doesn’t inform his decisions. He only cares about saving himself and he will burn down everything this country stands for to try to do that. Maybe he gets got in the end but the journey is going to be one of the ugliest things this country has ever seen. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Trump is already receiving very special treatment. And he will take every advantage of that in ways we can’t even imagine yet. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7016 "2023-07-23T22:38:13Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > People are discussing these things as if Trump is a normal person. I’m certainly not. My point was, and is, that like all defendants in Federal trials, his presence is required. Whether or not he goes full baboon in the courtroom, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7017 "2023-07-23T22:50:11Z")
There is always the Bobby Seale treatment. [![](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/10/21/b4034952-64d1-4129-abc9-f3fded833d08/thumbnail/640x480/af859bd27e2e16c31b956eb12d7ca255/bobby-seale-bound-and-gagged-courtroom-sketch-1280.jpg?v=b9ad248140817530b57bedd1355bcccb) ](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2020/10/21/b4034952-64d1-4129-abc9-f3fded833d08/thumbnail/640x480/af859bd27e2e16c31b956eb12d7ca255/bobby-seale-bound-and-gagged-courtroom-sketch-1280.jpg?v=b9ad248140817530b57bedd1355bcccb) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7018 "2023-07-23T22:54:46Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > And he will take every advantage of that in ways we can’t even imagine yet. He can try. But believe it or not, most judges have dealt with defendants more batshit and obnoxious than Trump. They have ways of containing him. He will get more latitude due to his being a former president, but it won’t be limitless. I don’t think most of the federal judges are going to let him walk all over them. The post upthread with the picture of the defendant holding his “Objection” sign isn’t far off the mark. Trump may spend the entire trial in a separate room where he can watch the proceedings on a monitor. He can text his concerns to his attorneys in the courtroom if he has them (and of course he will). ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7019 "2023-07-23T23:00:21Z")
withdrawn ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7020 "2023-07-23T23:01:30Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > most judges have dealt with defendants more batshit and obnoxious than Trump. I know it’s a high bar, but yes, those of us who have hung around court houses know exactly what you mean, and can likely think of personal examples. Some of the sovereign citizens come to mind: Court clerk: “How do you plead?” Accused: “Are you offering to enter into a contract by agreement with me? or with the pseudo-trust entity known as ACCUSED?” And so it goes…often ending in a contempt citation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=350) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=352)