# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 361
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7201 "2023-08-11T01:33:45Z")
@Aspenglow : is there a better place for talk of potential Federal Wire Fraud charges against Trump and his SuperPAC? Should this be a new thread? Does one already exist? Quick addition on that subject: > **941. 18 U.S.C. 1343—ELEMENTS OF WIRE FRAUD** > > > The elements of wire fraud under Section 1343 directly parallel those of the mail fraud statute, but require the use of an interstate telephone call or electronic communication made in furtherance of the scheme. _United States v. Briscoe_, 65 F.3d 576, 583 (7th Cir. 1995) (_citing_ _United States v. Ames Sintering Co._, 927 F.2d 232, 234 (6th Cir. 1990) (per curiam)); _United States v. Frey_, 42 F.3d 795, 797 (3d Cir. 1994) (wire fraud is identical to mail fraud statute except that it speaks of communications transmitted by wire); _see also_, _e.g._, _United States v. Profit_, 49 F.3d 404, 406 n. 1 (8th Cir.) **(the four essential elements of the crime of wire fraud are: (1) that the defendant voluntarily and intentionally devised or participated in a scheme to defraud another out of money; (2) that the defendant did so with the intent to defraud; (3) that it was reasonably foreseeable that interstate wire communications would be used; and (4) that interstate wire communications were in fact used)** (_citing_ Manual of Model Criminal Jury Instructions for the District Courts of the Eighth Circuit 6.18.1341 (West 1994)), _cert. denied_, 115 S.Ct. 2289 (1995); _United States v. Hanson_, 41 F.3d 580, 583 (10th Cir. 1994) (two elements comprise the crime of wire fraud: (1) a scheme or artifice to defraud; and (2) use of interstate wire communication to facilitate that scheme); _United States v. Faulkner_, 17 F.3d 745, 771 (5th Cir. 1994) (essential elements of wire fraud are: (1) a scheme to defraud and (2) the use of, or causing the use of, interstate wire communications to execute the scheme), _cert. denied_, 115 S.Ct. 193 (1995); _United States v. Cassiere_, 4 F.3d 1006 (1st Cir. 1993) (to prove wire fraud government must show (1) scheme to defraud by means of false pretenses, (2) defendant’s knowing and willful participation in scheme with intent to defraud, and (3) use of interstate wire communications in furtherance of scheme); _United States v. Maxwell_, 920 F.2d 1028, 1035 (D.C. Cir. 1990) (“Wire fraud requires proof of (1) a scheme to defraud; and (2) the use of an interstate wire communication to further the scheme.”). > > Bolding mine ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7202 "2023-08-11T01:49:59Z")
@DavidNRockies, I appreciate your ask. It probably does need its own thread. The issue of Trump funding his legal expenses with PACs and SuperPACs and how he has been abusing the law doesn’t really pertain to this thread or any of the other specific threads relating to Georgia and election subversion. He’s funding all his defense attorneys across many prosecutions. Do you want to start one? Or would you prefer me to split this discussion into a new thread? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7203 "2023-08-11T01:50:59Z")
I’ll start one. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7204 "2023-08-11T01:52:05Z")
Okies, thanks. Let me know if you want any posts from this thread moved to the new one. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7205 "2023-08-11T02:05:52Z")
New thread: > [@Trump - possible Wire Fraud indictment?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-possible-wire-fraud-indictment/988382): > > Special Counsel, Jack Smith, had a panoply of options/mountain of improprieties to dig through in order to decide if, and with what, to charge Donald Trump. Paring it down to the nub – choosing the charges that best fit the available evidence and offered him the best chance for a conviction – was, to be sure, no mean feat. I’ve also opined that he and Fani Willis likely were joined at the proverbial hip to decide the best venue – Federal vs. State – to charge some of the possible crimes and so… I don’t think we’ve covered much ground here. I’m not sure it’s necessary to move post from this one, but … thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7206 "2023-08-11T02:11:19Z")
No problem. * * * If anyone else wants their post moved to the new thread, just PM me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7207 "2023-08-11T04:53:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Do you want to start one? Or would you prefer me to split this discussion into a new thread? At this point, I think it would put less load on the servers if we only had threads when Trump does something that’s _not_ illegal. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2023, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7208 "2023-08-11T05:30:00Z")
Boy, talk about hearing nothing but crickets. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7209 "2023-08-15T18:06:14Z")
Lawfare gives a legal review of Cannon’s response to the request for a Garcia hearing: > **[Judge Cannon Issues Another Troubling Order in Mar-a-Lago Case](https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/judge-cannon-issues-another-troubling-order-in-mar-a-lago-case)** > > Why Judge Cannon’s denial of the prosecutors’ motion to seal and request that co-defendant Nauta file a response brief are so intensely weird In short: She axed the information that would let her make a ruling on the subject, needlessly, before having the hearing on the subject. And she’s complaining that the Prosecution is using out-of-district information to create new hearings against the defendant - ignoring that the hearing is to ensure that the defendant is getting his 6th Amendment rights. It’s all very bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7210 "2023-08-15T18:19:35Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Lawfare gives a legal review of Cannon’s response to the request for a Garcia hearing: That’s a great summary that explains how Cannon not only has no idea what she’s doing, but is so heavily biased toward Trump. IMHO, she has no business running this case. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7211 "2023-08-15T18:36:55Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > IMHO, she has no business running this case. I’m starting to seriously wonder if someone should be checking her bank accounts for mysterious deposits. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7212 "2023-08-15T18:47:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m starting to seriously wonder if someone should be checking her bank accounts for mysterious deposits. Assuming that the suggestions that she was echoing statements by the defense on Fox News, the better guess would simply be that she’s a Fox News watcher and is undergoing a pretty extreme case of cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7213 "2023-08-15T18:49:14Z")
Who could argue but that this is one of the most important trials in US history, and it’s just plain dumb to give it to an inexperienced judge. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7214 "2023-08-15T19:05:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Assuming that the suggestions that she was echoing statements by the defense on Fox News, the better guess would simply be that she’s a Fox News watcher and is undergoing a pretty extreme case of cognitive dissonance. What kind of fucking stupid judge follows the lead of the defense lawyers as seen on fucking stupid Fox News? I think it’s a better look for her if she really is being bribed. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7215 "2023-08-15T19:29:17Z")
To be fair… Forget it, I can’t argue with anything you said. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7216 "2023-08-15T19:34:38Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s like being accused of assaulting someone, so you demand to be allowed to question them alone in a room with no witnesses or recording devices. “This is my emotional support lead pipe! Democrats don’t care about mental health!!!” ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7217 "2023-08-15T20:07:54Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > “This is my emotional support lead pipe! Democrats don’t care about mental health!!!” Ya drinking through it or hitting people with it? Probably both. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7218 "2023-08-15T20:42:26Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > In short: She axed the information that would let her make a ruling on the subject, needlessly, before having the hearing on the subject. And she’s complaining that the Prosecution is using out-of-district information to create new hearings against the defendant - ignoring that the hearing is to ensure that the defendant is getting his 6th Amendment rights. A twofer! In the short run, she’s favoring the defendant, and in the long run, even if the jury convicts him, she’s also giving him grounds for appeal! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7219 "2023-08-15T20:50:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > she’s also giving him grounds for appeal! Are there grounds for appeal like “the judge was totally in my corner and gave me complete latitude but I was convicted anyway.”??? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7220 "2023-08-15T21:01:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > she’s favoring the defendant In this case, it seems like she is not; she’s favoring a mistrial. The case could be overturned if Cannon declines to allow a Garcia hearing or disallows the DOJ from presenting evidence that the defense’s lawyer is conflicted in the matter. If she does either of these, after they meet with her, I expect that they’ll need to appeal to a higher court for an injunction (not confident that I’m using the appropriate terms there.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=360) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=362)