# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 362
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7221 "2023-08-16T00:46:19Z")
[Carlos De Oliveira has pleaded ( I feel like it should be “pled”) not guilty.](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/15/mar-a-lago-manager-pleads-not-guilty-in-trump-classified-documents-case) "NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS EVER HAPPENED BEFORE,” Trump said in a post on the social media site Truth Social on Monday. “OUR COUNTRY CAN NEVER LET THIS STAND!” He’s not wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7222 "2023-08-16T04:44:42Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m starting to seriously wonder if someone should be checking her bank accounts for mysterious deposits. Look in two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7223 "2023-08-16T11:41:19Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Look in two weeks. There will just be a note: “I will gladly bribe you Tuesday for a corrupt ruling today. Signed, Not Donald Trump.” ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7224 "2023-08-16T11:55:56Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > There will just be a note: “I will gladly bribe you Tuesday for a corrupt ruling today. Signed, Not Donald Trump.” And we all know he won’t pay up. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7225 "2023-08-16T12:24:40Z")
Signed, Epstein’s mother. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7226 "2023-08-16T12:31:05Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Signed, Epstein’s mother You misspelled “Epstein’s **Client** ”. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7227 "2023-08-16T15:50:27Z")
Signed, John Barron. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7228 "2023-08-16T15:53:07Z")
Moderating: Ok, time to drop the hijack cracks. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2023, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7229 "2023-08-17T14:23:00Z")
… the hicracks, iow. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7230 "2023-08-21T22:58:28Z")
Looking worse for Trump: > **[Mike Pence and Mark Meadows Just Ruined Trump’s Defense in Classified Docs Case](https://newrepublic.com/post/175098/mike-pence-mark-meadows-just-ruined-trumps-defense-classified-docs-case)** > > The former president appears to be caught in a huge lie. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7231 "2023-08-21T23:50:07Z")
Seriously, even a sentence of summary? C’mon, man. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7232 "2023-08-22T00:04:59Z")
For the lazy (from the article linked above): 😉 > Trump’s main argument for his innocence is that as president, he could declassify whatever material he wanted. His allies had previously argued that he had a “[standing declassification order](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/18/politics/trump-claim-standing-order-declassify-nonsense-patently-false-former-officials/index.html)” that would immediately declassify any document removed from the Oval Office. Trump himself [claimed](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-hannity-presidents-can-declassify-documents-thinking-about-it) he could declassify things “just by thinking about it.” > > But Pence and Meadows, two of Trump’s closest advisers in the White House, say differently. “I was never made aware of any broad-based effort to declassify documents,” Pence [told](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-8-20-23-former-vice-president/story?id=102386116) ABC on Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7233 "2023-08-22T00:11:05Z")
I was under the impression that classification was not an element of the Florida offense. If they are “national security” documents, he’s guilty (classified or not) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7234 "2023-08-22T00:22:39Z")
That’s my impression as well. I think this is more of a “we’ve removed one of the jury nullification strategies,” though the media and pundit class are reporting it as though this is just what the prosecution needed to plug up the last hole in their case. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7235 "2023-08-22T00:24:50Z")
What denotes a “national security” document if not its security classification? (really asking) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7236 "2023-08-22T00:26:02Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Seriously, even a sentence of summary? C’mon, man. _" Former Vice President Mike Pence and former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows [said](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/20/us/politics/pence-trump-classified-documents.html?partner=slack&smid=sl-share) on Sunday that they had no knowledge of then-President Donald Trump declassifying a large number of documents, completely undermining the former president’s main defense in the Mar-a-Lago case."_ ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7237 "2023-08-22T00:39:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What denotes a “national security” document if not its security classification? Well for one thing, overclassification is a real problem and many things that are classified really shouldn’t be. > **[Is America’s system for handling classified documents broken?](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/americas-system-classified-documents-broken-rcna66106)** > > Far too many documents are classified, and gatekeepers charged with tracking the secret papers are struggling to keep up, experts say. I know that’s an argument going the _other_ way, but it’s still true. But the nature of information in a document is what deems its risk to national security, not the classification of it. Classifying a document is nothing more than putting a label on it, and doesn’t change the nature of the information. Here is an article explaining it: > **[Trump: I Declassified. DOJ: Whatever](https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2023-06-22/why-trumps-declassification-argument-doesnt-matter-in-the-dojs-case)** > > The Justice Department is denying Trump one of his favorite defenses – at least in the courtroom. > “From a legal perspective, classification doesn’t matter. It’s really just: Does it pertain to the national defense?” says Barb McQuade, a professor from practice at the University of Michigan Law School and the former U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. I work for state government, and we don’t classify and declassify stuff. We have a classification system, but it’s 100% descriptive. You can’t wave a magic wand and change the nature of data. For example, if a document has social security numbers or personal medical information on it, that’s “restricted confidential” in our system, and nobody can put a stamp on it and change that. Not even the governor. Meanwhile, a blank form that hasn’t been filled out is given the “public” classification, meaning that anyone has the right to see it, because there is nothing sensitive on it. No declaration can change that. So, the standard that the Espionage Act uses is similar to the same logic that my state government uses; what matters is the nature of the data, not a label someone slapped on it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7238 "2023-08-22T00:55:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > For the lazy … You could describe it just a little bit if you’d like someone to click on it. Or you could be lazy. Does it make it cool if I add a smiley face? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7239 "2023-08-22T01:25:07Z")
It seems to me the headline in not just misleading, but thoroughly wrong. I don’t think this hurts Trump’s Defense at all. For this to impact his defense, Trump would have to make a claim, to the court, that he did, in fact, issue standing orders to have documents declassified. To do that, either Trump would have to testify (best evidence) or have someone else testify that those were the orders they were given. It is unlikely, IMHO, that either one of those things will happen. IIRC, even in the Special Master filings, it was only speculated by the defense that some of the documents may have been declassified (which is, in fact, true. Some may have been, since they didn’t know exactly which documents they had, how could he know?). Now, perhaps this might affect the case in the Court of Public Opinion, but nobody cares about that since, in the CoPO, Trump has already been totally exonerated (If you don’t believe me, just ask him or his base). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7240 "2023-08-22T01:30:24Z")
The issue here is Trump is saying he had a [standing order to declassify documents.](https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/18/politics/trump-claim-standing-order-declassify-nonsense-patently-false-former-officials/index.html) High ranking officials in his administration are saying that never happened. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=361) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=363)