# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 364
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7261 "2023-08-22T18:47:53Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Trump’s argument is unconvincing because he’s leaving out the properly part. Leaving out whether it information “should have been” and/or was previously properly classified. This is somewhat circular logic though. If you argue that classification matters, but only if the classification was proper, and it’s only proper if the content of the documentation included legitimate national security secrets, then all you’re really saying is that the only thing that matters is the content. And therefore, classification **doesn’t** matter. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7262 "2023-08-22T18:50:10Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Maybe this is what **Lance\_Turbo** is referring to (magically disappearing the properly classified status doesn’t matter) I am referring to the obstruction charges. Trump was served with a subpoena and he’s charged with obstruction for going to great lengths to defy that subpoena. These charges are not related to the espionage act and the classified status of the documents in question are irrelevant. He arranged for Nauta to hide things responsive to the subpoena and tricked his lawyer into telling DOJ that they had turned over all responsive documents. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7263 "2023-08-22T20:45:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > This is somewhat circular logic though. If you argue that classification matters, but only if the classification was proper, and it’s only proper if the content of the documentation included legitimate national security secrets, then all you’re really saying is that the only thing that matters is the content. And therefore, classification **doesn’t** matter. I see your point, but I think we agree. Because the “logic” comes to the correct conclusion for the inverse. Ie…Classification _process_ matters, and if it was properly NOT classified because it did not include legitimate national security secrets, then all I’m saying is the information almost certainly doesn’t contain national security secrets (ie, NDI). To say another way, I’m saying the merits of determining information worthy of being classified matters - one way or the other. Hopefully I’m explaining it with enough clarity. Maybe it’s the word usage, because that does matter here. But NDI, sensitive info, national security secrets - that’s kind of interchangeable for my point. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I am referring to the obstruction charges. Sorry about that. I went too fast through the posts. If it matters, I agree with you re obstruction, especially after the subpoena was issued. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7264 "2023-08-22T20:58:41Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Classification _process_ matters, and if it was properly NOT classified because it did not include legitimate national security secrets, then all I’m saying is the information almost certainly doesn’t contain national security secrets (ie, NDI). I agree, that’s why I felt obliged to earlier link to an article discussing how the US has a problem with overclassifying documents. It’s funny but under some laws you could be prosecuted for mishandling national secrets that aren’t classified, and under others you could be prosecuted for mishandling classified documents that don’t really have anything at all sensitive in them. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7265 "2023-08-22T21:19:40Z")
Re: the distinction between classified and national defense information. Whether or not something is national defense information is a question that is left to the jury. Not all classified docs are national defense information and not all national defense information is classified. That said, classification would be a pretty good rule of thumb all things being equal. But in this case, all things are not equal. Jack Smith didn’t charge Trump with every single document that DOJ recovered from Mar-a-lago. He charged Trump (under 793e aka the espionage act) for exactly 31 documents. And you can bet that it will be clear and easily provable beyond a reasonable doubt that these particular documents are national defense information regardless of classification. Furthermore, at least one of the documents is in a category that the president can’t unilaterally declassify (docs concerning nuclear programs covered by the Atomic Energy Act). The ‘Trump declassified everything’ argument won’t be a big part of the trial if it comes up at all, because it doesn’t help Trump even if they win the argument and it’s not something that Jack Smith needs to prove. The Trump team may use some form of this argument attempt to cause delay related to discovery and such. But it’s not a serious legal argument, it’s at best a distraction. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7266 "2023-08-22T21:53:58Z")
A new lawyer for employee number 4! And now he has retracted false testimony. Public defender lawyer. Key witness now. Breaking news on msnbc. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7267 "2023-08-22T21:54:12Z")
There is breaking news that employee # 4 got a new attorney and has retracted previously false testimony. The new testimony implicates Nauta, De Olivera and Trump. ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7268 "2023-08-22T21:54:48Z")
Rut-roh. Smith has flipped Defendant #4 in the superseding indictment, and that witness has indicated that Trump, De Oliveira and Nauta lied and destroyed video evidence after the DOJ subpoenaed for it. ETA Double-ninja’d!! ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7269 "2023-08-22T21:55:51Z")
Are we all watching Andrew Weismann? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7270 "2023-08-22T21:56:52Z")
I am, yes. Charlie Sykes is speaking now. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7271 "2023-08-22T21:58:20Z")
This has just gotten way more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7272 "2023-08-22T21:59:54Z")
Interesting in the sense that it’s a (to use the official legal term) slam dunk case, and I wonder what Cannon can do to protect Trump from this evidence. Maybe throw it out? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7273 "2023-08-22T22:01:56Z")
I’m reckoning on cannon not being the final trial judge. She is on the edge. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7274 "2023-08-22T22:03:43Z")
Do we know who employee #4 might be? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7275 "2023-08-22T22:04:42Z")
So, this would be Yuscil Taveras, Mar-A-Lago’s IT Director? Damn. That’s gonna’ leave a mark. Single Malt (the threshold is ineffably lowering. Don’t judge) ETA: looks like … > **[‘Trump Employee 4’ In Classified Documents Indictment Identified As Yuscil...](https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2023/07/28/trump-employee-4-in-classified-documents-indictment-identified-as-yuscil-taveras-mar-a-lagos-it-director/)** > > Yuscil was identified as his job title in the superseding indictment, which levied three new charges against Trump In his classified documents case. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7276 "2023-08-22T22:06:55Z")
Yuscil Taveras is one smart cookie. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7277 "2023-08-22T22:10:30Z")
Thanks David. I bet Yuscil is just the first of many. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7278 "2023-08-22T22:11:55Z")
Honest question–what is his life expectancy? I hope the DOJ is fully on this. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7279 "2023-08-22T22:13:24Z")
I’m confident they are all under protection of the DOJ. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7280 "2023-08-22T22:33:56Z")
Is this breaking news? I thought this was old news. Taveras was previously represented by Woodward (Nauta, lots of other witnesses attorney), but switched awhile back after receiving a target letter. I thought his new testimony was the basis for the superseding indictment. Maybe learning new details about that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=363) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=365)