# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 390
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7804 "2024-03-19T03:47:15Z")
She’s so bad. I heard Andrew Weissmann opining on the meaning of Cannon’s order. He explained it like this (I’m paraphrasing): “Please craft a jury instruction assuming the world is flat. Now also craft a jury instruction assuming the world is square.” He also pointed out that whether a record falls under the PRA is a judicial determination, not one for the jury’s consideration. Hard to see how this lunacy avoids review by the Eleventh. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7805 "2024-03-19T06:14:33Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > “Please craft a jury instruction assuming the world is flat. Now also craft a jury instruction assuming the world is square.” … Is she trying to get the two teams of lawyers to do her own job for her? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7806 "2024-03-19T06:25:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > how this lunacy avoids review by the Eleventh. I think that’s the whole point. Cannon knows that any a review by the Eleventh will take a long time. She is doing Trump’s work…delay,delay,delay. And it seems to be working. She just needs to delay for 8 months, after which the whole case will disappear. Which is obviously what she wants. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7807 "2024-03-19T07:20:41Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > She just needs to delay for 8 months, after which the whole case will disappear. > … _If_ Trump is reelected. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7808 "2024-03-19T08:05:09Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I think that’s the whole point. Cannon knows that any a review by the Eleventh will take a long time. > > She is doing Trump’s work…delay,delay,delay. > > And it seems to be working. > > She just needs to delay for 8 months, after which the whole case will disappear. Which is obviously what she wants. I’d like to see a whole bunch of anti-Trumps outside that courthouse, each carrying an AR-15, saying, “No more delay. Resolution now.” Hey, anti-Trumps are Americans, they have the Second Amendment, they can be just as well armed as the Trumpists. I know the Trumpists think the anti-Trumps have no guns, but I’m pretty sure they do. Hey MAGAts! What will you think when you get hit by a leftist bullet? “Owie, owie, owie, Mama I got an owie! Dems aren’t supposed to use guns!” Or some such shit. Wahhhh! Yeah, cry me a river, Trumpists. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7809 "2024-03-19T12:21:28Z")
That’s a good analogy. Draft me jury instructions based on wacky interpretations of the law. So what does Jack do? I don’t think there’s an “I don’t wanna” appeal to be made. I’d guess he’ll just reject the hypotheticals, explain why he did that, and draft proper jury instructions. The PRA can get to the willfull element. That might be, in a butchered way, what Cannon is getting at. If a jury determines that Trump believed he legally had the docs, even though it was incorrect, then a jury could decide it was not willful. Something like that. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7810 "2024-03-19T12:46:04Z")
i heard mr weissmann last night. seriously, this judge is way out of her league. i’m sure the eleventh is watching. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7811 "2024-03-19T12:50:51Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I know the Trumpists think the anti-Trumps have no guns, but I’m pretty sure they do. 😈 Yup. No AR but I have plenty (inherited). I’ve been a target shooter all my life. Not just .22’s ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7812 "2024-03-19T13:11:55Z")
Sounds like she’s saying: “hey prosecutor. Please draft jury instructions based on defendant’s completely incorrect interpretation of the Presidential Records Act.” Jesus, what does she have to do to have Jack Smith move to get her off the case? So it takes a few more months, better delay than to have her grease the skids for acquittal. I think it’s time to get her phone records and bank records. It really sounds like she’s taking instructions and/or money from the defense. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7813 "2024-03-19T13:32:15Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > > [@Aspenglow](#): > > > > “Please craft a jury instruction assuming the world is flat. Now also craft a jury instruction assuming the world is square.” > > … Is she trying to get the two teams of lawyers to do her own job for her? That was my thought. Isn’t this something the judge should be doing, not the legal teams? Doesn’t she have staff that could write this stuff up for her? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7814 "2024-03-19T14:28:49Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > > [@Spoons](#): > > > > I know the Trumpists think the anti-Trumps have no guns, but I’m pretty sure they do. > > 😈 Yup. No AR but I have plenty (inherited). I’ve been a target shooter all my life. Not just .22’s I’ve lost count of how many ARs I have. (Actually, I have two Colts; the others are ‘AR-style’.) I’m pretty sure _this_ Liberal more firearms than many Trumpists. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7815 "2024-03-19T14:36:48Z")
It’s very sad. We are talking about having to defend ourselves against these assholes. It’s way to late for the courts to act promptly, but they need to do something fast. Then let the pieces fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7816 "2024-03-19T15:20:54Z")
If I had ANY respect for Loose Cannon, I would almost be embarrassed for her - seeing her repeatedly embarrass herself so publicly. What a public example of someone so poorly qualified for the job she is expected to perform… ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7817 "2024-03-19T15:25:49Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Isn’t this something the judge should be doing, not the legal teams? Doesn’t she have staff that could write this stuff up for her? It’s common for the parties to submit proposed jury instructions. Especially the ones crafted specifically for contested legal theories. The only strange part is she’s seems to be asking for instructions that don’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7818 "2024-03-19T15:30:59Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I know the Trumpists think the anti-Trumps have no guns, but I’m pretty sure they do. Yes, we certainly do. And I’m a better shot than the cop practicing for recertification at the range the other day. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7819 "2024-03-19T15:32:56Z")
May we move all of the discussion of firearms proficiency and ownership to another thread? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7820 "2024-03-19T15:34:13Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Isn’t this something the judge should be doing, not the legal teams? Doesn’t she have staff that could write this stuff up for her? The normal course is for the judge to do a draft, submit it to the parties for their input, have a hearing to argue it out, reach agreement (with or without a party lodging an objection on a point for appellate purposes), then the judge’s staff clean up the draft and produce the final form. ETA: what **Procrustus** said as a common first step. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7821 "2024-03-19T15:54:26Z")
That’s not how it happened in the venue where I used to work, but mine was California state and this is Florida federal, and in my experience, there are a million ways to do everything. * * * In California, the judge would have each side submit a proposed set of instructions _based on how things had unfolded at trial_. Then they would have an informal conference in chambers to work out the ones all parties agreed on. If there were disputes, the judge would then hold a hearing outside the presence of the jury for each side to lodge their objections on the record to what the judge had decided. So to me, there are two very odd things Cannon has done: First, to ask for jury instructions _of any kind_ at this point in the proceedings; and second, to ask for jury instructions that so clearly not just favor the defendant but ensure he will win the case. It’s hard for me to think Jack Smith is going to ignore this. Most of the talking pundits seem to believe he will take a writ of mandamus to the Eleventh to force Cannon to abide by the actual applicable law in this case. I hope he goes further and moves to have her removed for cause. My only worry there is that the case may be reassigned to someone worse. ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7822 "2024-03-19T17:13:49Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > My only worry there is that the case may be reassigned to someone worse. Are there any sitting judges in Florida that are objectively worse? I have no idea, but I sincerely doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2024, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/7823 "2024-03-19T17:16:49Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > Are there any sitting judges in Florida that are objectively worse? I have no idea, but I sincerely doubt it. I agree it’s hard to imagine and I have no idea, either, but… it’s Florida. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=389) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=391)