# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 417
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8346 "2024-06-22T01:26:20Z")
I completely agree, but I don’t want to discuss the Georgia case in this thread except to say I saw far worse and more clear cut conflicts of interest in the courts where I worked. And while we all knew the behaviors were inappropriate, they weren’t used as a basis to put a thumb on the scales of justice in cases that were pending before the court. Watching the partisan bullshit antics in Georgia and Florida are stomach-turning – to say nothing of what SCOTUS is doing to the January 6th case. A decade ago, stuff like this would never have happened. It’s so scary to me. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8347 "2024-06-22T02:29:25Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > It involves our national security interests and our role on the world stage as a trustworthy ally to other nations. No kidding. When Trump got elected, I actually wrote to David Vigneault (in charge of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service) to implore him to recognize the danger of sharing information with the United States with an unhinged, unpredictable fool at the top. I imagine I’ll be writing an even stronger missive if Trump gets in again. We simply cannot share information with the US in that event without simply assuming it will go directly to Putin. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8348 "2024-06-22T02:40:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Is anyone looking into her bank accounts and/or communications with Trump associates and foreign governments? I’m very serious. Apologies for responding to something from weeks ago, but the serious answer is likely no. American journalists are currently too respectful of privacy to do that. And here’s evidence that aggressive privacy-busting journalism is now considered a no-no: [Washington Post will not bring in Robert Winnett as its top editor after report raised ethical questions](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/21/media/robert-winnett-washington-post/index.html) As for American prosecutors, I think they would have to be handed the case on a proverbial silver platter, by journalists, before daring to touch a federal judge. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8349 "2024-06-22T10:39:29Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This is a very serious case. It involves our national security interests and our role on the world stage as a trustworthy ally to other nations. Lives were very likely lost over obtaining the important information that Trump stole. Our national intelligence agencies aren’t going to trumpet the scope of what has been compromised, but I think it’s very safe to assume that a lot of pretty serious stuff was. Thank you for your excellent summation in your previous post and these further thoughts. It raises two questions. The first is purely speculative, but surely there must be some level of obvious bias and incompetence at which a judge can be removed from a case? I know it’s very rare, but unless there’s a viable mechanism for it this is a glaring hole in the entire system of justice! The other question is purely procedural. Sometimes prosecutors have the right to appeal a verdict and sometimes they don’t. I’m fuzzy on when they can and when they can’t. Can the prosecution in this case appeal a “not guilty” finding on the basis of Cannon’s bias and incompetence? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8350 "2024-06-22T13:46:01Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Instead, Cannon seems solely preoccupied with whether Trump is being treated “fairly.” She doesn’t seem to get the enormous stakes that are at issue here. I find this disqualifying of her on its face. Yup. And I see you have “fairly” in air quotes, but this is all about Cannon trying to get something, _something_ from Trump or the GOP. Well… she could just be a total nitwit, Trump did appoint her after all. We will never be trusted by other nations. I don’t trust our nation. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8351 "2024-06-22T15:58:51Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yup. And I see you have “fairly” in air quotes, but this is all about Cannon trying to get something, _something_ from Trump or the GOP. I’ve seen it mentioned in this thread and elsewhere that Cannon may be angling for a supreme court seat in the near future. Either that or maybe something comparable? What that would be I’m not sure, and I’m fairly certain the suggestions were meant half jokingly. That being said, I almost kind of hope it is this because “power hungry” is at least an understandable motivation. Cannon is not only sacrificing her own reputation on the altar of MAGA, but is also doing very real damage to the reputation of her profession as well as the justice system in general. And it seems like she just doesn’t care? All to protect Donald Trump, and with no understanding of getting anything on the back end? I find that thought terrifying. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8352 "2024-06-22T16:43:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The first is purely speculative, but surely there must be some level of obvious bias and incompetence at which a judge can be removed from a case? I know much less about the federal system than the State of California, but my understanding is that the body that gaveth can taketh away. IOW, Congress can impeach her and remove her from her position. You can calculate the odds of that happening without my help, I’m sure. In terms of local control, meaning the district for which she performs, there is no ability to remove her. The Eleventh can intervene to undo some damage she does with her rulings. But that brings us to your second question: > [@wolfpup](#): > > Can the prosecution in this case appeal a “not guilty” finding on the basis of Cannon’s bias and incompetence? No. The timing of when the prosecution can appeal Cannon’s loony rulings and be heard is very limited. Once a jury is empaneled and sworn in to hear the case, jeopardy attaches and the prosecution must live or die with whatever rulings Cannon makes. Even with all we’ve seen and heard and my certainty that Cannon is not an objective or impartial judge, she still has a lot of latitude. She’s been very canny with her rulings – almost cute. She gives Trump and his team the space to float their crazy theories, hears them as though they have merit. Then she does what any other judge could do in far less time and with far less fanfare and rules more or less within the norm. But the damage is done: She lends credence to the crazy theories and delays the prosecution. Unfortunately, that’s not a basis for her removal from the case. For example, she’s going to deny Trump’s motion to remove Jack Smith. But she sure spent a lot of time hearing garbage arguments about how he might-just-could-be in league with the Biden Administration and Merrick Garland to facilitate the prosecution of this case, didn’t she? That’s complete bullshit, but it fits right in with the MAGA-world narrative conspiracy theory. Did her damage but there will be nothing to appeal. The big fear is that Cannon will shepherd the case through a jury being sworn, let Smith put on his case and then before the defense does their bit, grant a defense motion for a directed verdict and dismiss the case on the grounds that it was “unproven.” To those paying attention, this would be an enormous travesty of justice. What MAGA and their cohort count on is that most people don’t pay attention. End of case, no avenue of appeal. Poof, all gone, no accountability at all for one of the greatest crimes ever committed against this nation. Because this is what is at stake, I do believe Smith is going to make a hail Mary effort at the last possible moment to have her recused, and I think he may have about a 25% shot at success. He won’t be worse off for trying. She couldn’t be more biased than she already is. > [@Jihi](#): > > Cannon is not only sacrificing her own reputation on the altar of MAGA, but is also doing very real damage to the reputation of her profession as well as the justice system in general. And it seems like she just doesn’t care? You’re right. It’s terrifying. In fact, I think she cares a great deal. Just not about justice. It’s hard to know what motivates Cannon, but if I had to guess, I think she’s a True Believer™. She really seems completely taken in by the MAGA narrative of conspiracy theories about Biden and the Left. She thinks she’s doing God’s work and doesn’t recognize that she’s pursuing a dangerous agenda. I guess we’ll see what happens. I just think it’s important to recognize that we do have rogue judges doing real damage to our judicial system. We should call them out for what they are when they show themselves, as Cannon has done. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8353 "2024-06-22T16:51:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The big fear is that Cannon will shepherd the case through a jury being sworn, let Smith put on his case and then before the defense does their bit, grant a defense motion for a directed verdict and dismiss the case on the grounds that it was “unproven.” If this happens, are there other charges related to Trump’s handling of the documents that Smith could bring, either before a different judge in Florida or in a different jurisdiction, to which jeopardy would not apply? I have to think that Smith is canny enough to realize that this was a possibility with Cannon, and kept an ace up his sleeve. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8354 "2024-06-22T16:53:41Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > If this happens, are there other charges related to Trump’s handling of the documents that Smith could bring, perhaps in a different jurisdiction, to which jeopardy would not apply? Yes, I think he has and I think he will. A lot of these crimes were committed in Washington DC. The proper venue for those charges to be brought would be Washington DC. He’s brought none of those. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8355 "2024-06-22T18:01:19Z")
Yeah. If I snuck into the National archives and stole a shit ton of top secret documents and hid them in my home in Colorado, I would be prosected by the Feds I would think. NOT the state. Why is the state involve at all? Did Jack Smith screw up? This is just one of MANY things that Trump belongs in prison for. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8356 "2024-06-22T18:08:19Z")
The state is not involved. Jack Smith did not screw up. Cases are supposed to be tried in the jurisdiction where the crimes allegedly occurred. The case is being tried in the federal court overseen by the Federal Southern District of Florida. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8357 "2024-06-22T18:27:27Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > The case is being tried in the federal court overseen by the Federal Southern District of Florida. Thanks. It’s I who screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8358 "2024-06-22T18:31:07Z")
Plus, Smith hasn’t charged Trump with wrongfully taking the papers when he was leaving DC (which in my opinion would be a hard case to make when a President, assisted by numerous aides, is taking docs out of the office in a hurry when he’s at the end of his term and has to vacate by a hard deadline). He’s charged with wilful failure to **return** the documents, once requested by the Archives. That refusal likely occurred in Florida, where he was keeping the docs, so Florida is the appropriate venue. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8359 "2024-06-22T18:35:30Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Thanks. It’s I who screwed up. No offense meant, but in a decision involving proper venue, I’d defer to Jack Smith’s wisdom and experience over any of us. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8360 "2024-06-22T19:39:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > taking docs out of the office in a hurry when he’s at the end of his term and has to vacate by a hard deadline) He had two months. Two. Months. I understand that the Trump team did little for the first several weeks, because the big orange turd was in denial. It’s like if someone is given an eviction notice for two months hence, but just sits in thieir apartment in denial for 7 weeks, and then sort of packs for 6 days, and then whines about how they didn’t have enough time and now they are on the streets and that’s why they packed the landlord’s TV “by accident” boo hoo. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8361 "2024-06-22T22:22:09Z")
He could have New Jersey in his back pocket. There is a recording of his showing classified documents in New Jersey… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8362 "2024-06-22T22:35:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Because this is what is at stake, I do believe Smith is going to make a hail Mary effort at the last possible moment to have her recused, and I think he may have about a 25% shot at success. He won’t be worse off for trying. She couldn’t be more biased than she already is. Why would he wait until the last possible moment? If he fails, it won’t matter when it happens, but if he succeeds, the sooner, the better, right? Or is he just hoping that she’ll do something so egregious that the recusal case will be a slam dunk? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8363 "2024-06-22T22:36:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or is he just hoping that she’ll do something so egregious that the recusal case will be a slam dunk? That doesn’t sound too far-fetched to me. Also, this might be Cannon’s only big case but it isn’t Smith’s, and Smith probably cares about his reputation. If he tries to get her removed and fails it might make him look overzealous which could cause problems for him. (Just a WAG.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8364 "2024-06-22T23:26:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why would he wait until the last possible moment? If he fails, it won’t matter when it happens, but if he succeeds, the sooner, the better, right? Or is he just hoping that she’ll do something so egregious that the recusal case will be a slam dunk? @Atamasama has got it right. Smith is going to need every single bit of evidence of Cannon’s bias to succeed. It’s a very high bar to have a judge recused from a case, and there are good reasons for that. Judge-shopping should be discouraged, and judges must have latitude to make unpopular decisions without fear of being removed from their cases. But we want those decisions to be rested on good, established judicial precedent, and that’s where Cannon fails. The more she fails and the more obvious her bias becomes, the better chance Smith has to succeed in his recusal efforts. As for the sooner the better, yes, in an ideal world, it would be best if the case could be wrested from her at the earliest possible moment. I think she’s already done great damage with her delaying tactics. Still, except for the wasted time, the harm she’s done can be undone by another judge should Smith succeed in his efforts. Meantime, the evidence of her bias continues to accumulate. Even with everything we’re seeing that demonstrates her bias, I am far from sure Smith can succeed. I just don’t see in the end why he shouldn’t at least try. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/8365 "2024-06-23T02:33:16Z")
Since she delayed the trial until after the election, it all comes down to the election. If Trump wins than rule of law no longer applies. If Trump loses there’s no point in further delays. The damage to US security and alliances, the offense to anyone who held a clearance, the tragic difference between how this and other such cases were handled all gets thrown by the wayside. Thanks to one prejudiced and under-qualified judge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=416) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=418)