# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/121 "2022-08-09T13:02:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The particular section of US criminal code, 18 USC 2071, which is associated with this crime, prevents one from running for public office ever again. > > That is why. I wonder how this interacts with Article 2 section 1 clause 5 of the Constitution, setting out requirements to be a president? For reference: > [@](#): > > No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. On the one hand, those seem to be necessary conditions, not sufficient conditions, so the law you quoted doesn’t directly contradict them. On the other hand, I can certainly imagine Trumpists arguing that a constitutional amendment is required to put further limitations on who can become president, and I’m not 100% sure which was the supreme court would go. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/122 "2022-08-09T13:03:25Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The particular section of US criminal code, 18 USC 2071, which is associated with this crime, prevents one from running for public office ever again. Buttery males! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/123 "2022-08-09T13:04:27Z")
Do we think it’s beneath Trump to take documents that he could sell to our country’s opponents? I wish I wasn’t so unsure about the answer to this question. This may end up not being that big of a deal but I do think that this is evidence that the DOJ noose is tightening. In particular, I think it’s increasingly likely that insider goons like Manafort and Meadows are spilling the beans. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/124 "2022-08-09T13:04:29Z")
This makes it seem like they were going to let him keep the documents if they were better secured, which is ridiculous. I’d love to see whatever communication has been going on between the National Archives and trump’s lawyers all this time. Perhaps something like: NA: Give them back. trump: No, mine! ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/125 "2022-08-09T13:05:36Z")
the search was in his personal quarters and offices. anything in those areas. i’m wondering if his other residences will be searched. archives know what is missing, if it is not found in florida will they search elsewhere. interesting that is was the same day that nixon resigned all those many years ago. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/126 "2022-08-09T13:14:37Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m genuinely curious about if he doesn’t understand Watergate and he’s just throwing words around or if he essentially (even if not directly) saying ‘I’m screwed, but I’m more screwed than any other president ever’. Essentially stealing the jokes all the Late Night shows had already written for tonight. Of course he doesn’t understand Thing One about Watergate. And the movie _All the President’s Men_ is way too slow and talky for him to watch. He thinks _Watergate_ means, _Everybody was mean to the President and now they’re being mean to me!_ * * * * * * > [@JohnT](#): > > They didn’t do it late at night. They started at 9am and continued for 9 hours, leaving after 6pm. Here’s the thing: There have been complaints on this board that the FBI isn’t doing anything/enough and certainly not fast enough or publicly enough. And the apologists have been saying, “The FBI and the DOJ don’t do everything in public with flashing lights and a commentary of sound bites like on TV cop shows.” Well, consider this: if trumpy hadn’t announced to the world that the FBI was searching Mar-a-Lago and rifling through his underwear drawer, **we might very well not know this was happening at all!** Trumpy blew the whistle on himself, because he wants to be seen as a martyr and a victim. But the FBI/DOJ was just doing its job like it’s supposed to: quietly and professionally without publicity, comment, or fanfare. A buncha black SUVs show up at Donnie’s house-- big deal. If any news media had asked, they would have been stonewalled by the FBI. Yeah, maybe a leak-- although there haven’t been enough leaks to satisfy critics of DOJ procedure. It was Donnie who kicked the cat, screaming, out of the bag. So the people who are complaining that the DOJ isn’t showing its hand every step of the way (pardon the mixed metaphor) can just take a chill pill and grok that the gummint cops are doing their job methodically and professionally. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/127 "2022-08-09T13:23:43Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Trumpy blew the whistle on himself, because he wants to be seen as a martyr and a victim. More like he’s probably trying to start another riot. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/128 "2022-08-09T13:28:25Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > This makes it seem like they were going to let him keep the documents if they were better secured, which is ridiculous. > > I’d love to see whatever communication has been going on between the National Archives and trump’s lawyers all this time. I suspect it was more along the lines of, “Well, if you’re not going to give them back (semi-)voluntarily, at least make sure _no one else_ steals them before our guys come back with a warrant.” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/129 "2022-08-09T13:32:19Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > They didn’t do it late at night. They started at 9am and continued for 9 hours, leaving after 6pm. Really? I didn’t know that. I didn’t start hearing anything about it until after I saw this thread and when I did a quick (clearly, too quickly) search to see what time it happened at, all I saw were pictures taken at night. Though I suppose those could have just been local cops remaining there in case things got violent. > [@Skypist](#): > > More like he’s probably trying to start another riot. A riot might gets his followers worked up, but isn’t going to help him and only going to hurt him (see: 1/6 riot). But if he thought he could get them worked up enough that the FBI would decide to walk away from the case because it’s more trouble than it’s worth…the early stages of the next coup? > [@Skypist](#): > > This makes it seem like they were going to let him keep the documents if they were better secured, which is ridiculous. That seemed odd to me too. A random thought I had is that doing something like that could make trump think ‘if that was their only problem, they must be okay with me holding on to them’. Make him think he’s in the clear so he doesn’t move/destroy them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/130 "2022-08-09T13:35:43Z")
> [@Skypist](#): > > I’d love to see whatever communication has been going on between the National Archives and trump’s lawyers all this time. [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/RDQn3p3.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/RDQn3p3) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/131 "2022-08-09T13:43:28Z")
[![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/tBMLR4H.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/tBMLR4H) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/132 "2022-08-09T13:50:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But if it’s boxes and boxes of documents, it’s almost certainly because their contents are damning. If the materials are simply incriminating, full stop, he has no reason to keep them. He may be a moron, but he’s not stupid. If the documents can put him in prison and have no other value, he simply burns them. Something else has to be going on. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/133 "2022-08-09T13:56:25Z")
If the DOJ already knew the documents were there then they knew that he took them, and all of that open knowledge could have precluded him from burning them outright. But I agree, if it was just about these documents and the DOJ knew exactly where they were, then the FBI wouldn’t need to do a 9 hour raid. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/134 "2022-08-09T14:09:56Z")
Fingers crossed… that’s the sort of thing that gets you thrown in jail, and would **hopefully** deflate some of the MAGA excitement about you. ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/135 "2022-08-09T14:12:12Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > They took down Al Capone for tax evasion, not his murderous gangstering. Now will the Feds Capone Trump for records violations? If they can’t get him for the insurrection/seditious conspiracy I’ll happily settle for slammer time for that. I’m not a lawyer. But there are some pretty good legal writers on the internet. Here’s one site that’s seems to know what they’re writing about: > **[Destroying Federal Documents During a Presidential Transition Is a Federal Crime](https://www.justsecurity.org/73265/destroying-federal-documents-during-a-presidential-transition-is-a-federal-crime/)** > > Presidential records and federal records belong to the United States government. The most relevant statute discussed seems to be 18 U.S. Code §2071. Concealment, removal, or mutilation. It states: > Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. From what I’ve been reading, the National Archives request for the return of the boxes of federal documents from Mar-a-Lago was made several months ago. It also seems that the boxes weren’t moved from the White House to Mar-a-Lago as Trump was leaving office, but were brought to Mar-a-Lago during Trump’s presidency when he used Mar-a-Lago as his Florida retreat. It was even discussed in the SDMB a few months ago. > [@The 15 boxes of classified documents taken by DOJ from Trump's Mar-a-Lago](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-15-boxes-of-classified-documents-taken-by-doj-from-trumps-mar-a-lago/963136/19?page=2): > > He’s found the best, most solidly impenetrable defense EVAH! Just look how well it has served him during his entire life. Refusal to act on a demand from the National Archives doesn’t seem to be a crime. If they knew about these boxes of documents for months, then they weren’t being concealed. For the removal charge, the DOJ has to prove that Trump ordered the boxes moved from the White House to Mar-a-Lago when he was leaving office, instead of being there all along. That leaves “mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys”. So it basically comes down to whether Trump or an assigned minion was going through the boxes and taking out things that belonged to the National Archive that Trump didn’t want them to have. Absent a witness testifying that happened, that’s going to be pretty hard to prove. I don’t think missing documents listed in an index will rise to the standard needed to prove a crime. My guess is that Trump, through his lawyers, will say that the boxes contained a mix of presidential and personal records, and he wanted to go through the boxes and remove the personal records, but just hadn’t got around to it. He may get charged on something else, but I doubt he gets charged based on a violation related to the Federal Records Act. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/136 "2022-08-09T14:15:25Z")
If it turns out that he was actually shredding some documents, then it would indicate that he was tipped to the search by someone at the DOJ. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/137 "2022-08-09T14:15:38Z")
I’m not buying this whole “MAGAts will riot in the streets” trope. (No matter how much Fox News tries to make it happen.) The Jan. 6 traitors had one location to draw them, and a months-long campaign to get them there. Spontaneous mass marches in state capitals because Trump’s place got raided? Not seeing it. Not even when he gets indicted. Random violence, probably. Of course, if MAGAts do want to peacefully march in protest of a likely felon being indicted, I encourage them to do so. It’s a free country. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/138 "2022-08-09T14:19:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > On the one hand, those seem to be necessary conditions, not sufficient conditions, so the law you quoted doesn’t directly contradict them. On the other hand, I can certainly imagine Trumpists arguing that a constitutional amendment is required to put further limitations on who can become president, and I’m not 100% sure which was the supreme court would go. [The NY Times has an article about this very thing today](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/us/politics/donald-trump-president-criminal-law.html) (probably paywalled). Here are some excerpts: > Specifically, the law in question — [Section 2071 of Title 18 of the United States Code](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2071) — makes it a crime if someone who has custody of government documents or records “willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies or destroys” them. > > If convicted, defendants can be fined or sentenced to prison for up to three years. In addition, the statute says, if they are currently in a federal office, they “shall forfeit” that office, and they shall “be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.” > But in considering that situation, several legal scholars — including [Seth B. Tillman of Maynooth University in Ireland](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2650328) and [Eugene Volokh of the University of California, Los Angeles](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/08/26/no-hillary-clinton-wouldnt-be-legally-ineligible-for-the-presidency-even-if-she-had-violated-government-records-laws/) — noted that the Constitution sets eligibility criteria for who can be president, and argued that [Supreme Court](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/395/486.html) rulings [suggest](https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/93-1456.ZO.html) Congress cannot alter them. The Constitution allows Congress to disqualify people from holding office in impeachment proceedings, but grants no such power for ordinary criminal law. The article also discusses how conservatives got over-excited about this law in 2015 due to Hillary Clinton’s private email server, but nothing came of it. My takeaway is that the “prevents Trump from holding federal office again” part of this is sadly much murkier than it looks at face value, for exactly the reasons LHoD stated. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/139 "2022-08-09T14:29:49Z")
Maybe next year’s CPAC can have a higher-profile prison-cosplay exhibit… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/140 "2022-08-09T14:43:50Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If the DOJ already knew the documents were there then they knew that he took them, and all of that open knowledge could have precluded him from burning them outright. Well, yeah, _after_ that inspection where federal agents confirmed the documents’ presence and nature (and demanded increased security), _then_ destruction is off the table. But before then? I dunno. Given the overwhelming aura of sausage-fingered ineptitude that suffused every single thing undertaken by this bunch of clowns, if they’d said prior to that inspection that “we had em somewhere, we think we sent em back to the White House, or maybe the CIA, or something, we’re honestly not sure,” I don’t think anything greater than negligent stupidity would have stuck. _That_ is when Trump would have dumped the docs down the outhouse, unless he had a specific reason/purpose for keeping them. Point is, barring more specific revelations, I will continue to be skeptical that Trump held onto this material solely due to keep it out of other people’s view. Again, he’s a moron, but he’s not stupid. If it’s not useful, and it’s simply incriminating, it’s ash. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=8)