# FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence, August 8, 2022, Case Dismissed July 15, 2024 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329 "2022-08-08T23:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1761 "2022-08-27T15:59:51Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Its almost as if you were writing an application for a search warrant. 😉 > [@](#): > > BTW, what kind of exposure does Christina Bobb face face for lying about the return of all classified docs? No idea. It would likely depend on exactly what her involvement was, what she was told by Trump staff handling the docs, and whether her conclusion was reasonable or a blind eye. I have no idea what the applicable federal statute might be. She could also potentially be facing bar sanctions, I suppose? ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1762 "2022-08-27T16:00:05Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s a very badly-written headline. Or in other words, for a propaganda outfit, that’s a very well-written headline. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1763 "2022-08-27T16:00:11Z")
This is the kind of [breathless alarmism](https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1563356586373877760?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) that I take issue with: > POTENTIALLY MASSIVE in light of what we know now: > > In Oct 2021, CIA Counterintelligence sent a top secret cable warning an unusually number of confidential informants were being killed, captured, or compromised. > > In Jan 2021, Trump stole documents on these kind of informants. Maybe he’s “just asking questions.” This is the kind of crap I hoped “my side” was above. (I saw this on reddit, not twitter. I don’t know who this guy is) eta: I’m guessing that this tweet was in response to that NYT headline posted above. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1764 "2022-08-27T16:12:50Z")
I predicted the insurrection just 6 days after the 2020 election. My strategy of assuming the worst from Donald Trump, has rarely been put to a serious test. I do not find anything wrong with Mr. Snell’s obvious speculation, he is an American citizen, and he does have that right. Just sayin’. ‘No, Trump wouldn’t go _that_ far’ has been a losing debate ploy for 7 years now. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1765 "2022-08-27T16:15:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Thank you both for the kind words. This is what lawyers do in their free time on a Saturday morning - make a brief. 🧐 While wearing briefs, I hope. (Actually, I don’t really care… Be comfy, I say.) Good work! 👍🏼 ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1766 "2022-08-27T16:16:42Z")
Then you’re back in the position of asserting that the DOJ is grossly incompetent and possibly has blood on their hands. eta: This whole case has moved about at the expected pace of librarians trying to get their property back. If Trump was literally giving the names of confidential informants to our enemies and those informants were being murdered, and _anyone_ had the slightest indication that Trump may be involved, then holy shit. What a scandal for the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1767 "2022-08-27T16:19:36Z")
Unless you’re a lawyer with some sort of specialty in national security law, then you’re just guessing. There’s a lot of other guessing going on too – there’s nothing wrong with guessing. But that’s all it is. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1768 "2022-08-27T16:20:20Z")
There was a lot of guessing going on with Hillary’s emails too. Some types of guessing are bad for the country. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1769 "2022-08-27T16:20:22Z")
Yes. This is messy. And it’s not the DOJ who stole the documents. So this complaint about the DOJ is baseless, as already noted above: the criminal is responsible for the crime. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1770 "2022-08-27T16:21:24Z")
Wow. OK then. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1771 "2022-08-27T16:29:45Z")
As I’ve tried to show in the timeline, investigations take time to develop. The investigators have to gather the evidence, they have to interview potential witnesses, they have to respect legal restrictions on their abilities to investigate, both normal ones, like the 4th Amendment, and in this case, extraordinary ones, like executive privilege and the Presidential Records Act. Document-heavy cases are some of the most complicated ones to investigate, particularly when the object of the investigation is wealthy and powerful, and can call up resources that the average person cannot. Investigations often have a tipping point, where what looks initially suspicious transitions to probable cause. My guess is that there was something in those interviews in June, coupled with the surveillance video, that was the tipping point, where the FBI agents concluded that they had sufficient grounds, at least for the warrant, but also possibly for the indictment. And in the context of this case, that would be an “Oh, shit!” moment, followed by “Who’s going to talk to the AG about it?” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1772 "2022-08-27T16:55:19Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Wow. OK then. Ok. Glad we are in agreement. Former Presidents should not steal records, and if the former president has already shown a propensity to overthrow the government, then: 1. Caution must be taken. 2. The former President is at fault here, not the department building an airtight case against a known seditionist with millions of violent followers. Agreement and understanding at last, we can put our phones/keyboards down and enjoy our Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1773 "2022-08-27T17:19:54Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s only after all those steps, in early August, that the FBI applies for the search warrant. Something about those interviews and the surveillance video appear to have triggered it, including information not just about the documents, but the issue of obstruction. The NY Times today has an article specifically about the issue of obstruction ([gift link](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/obstruction-trump-search-documents.html?unlocked_article_code=SPIjAqInAOHqMtEdNubno0COqcB9pICziDxxI1cVPCNONQfVGQUQzvUd4qObJ6tGWxFw78JAwQ-1rQNaHQIHmGO49HeK6to3SZmOWeil1qq4jTkXBilDLhwmarXekI4RJ7MF2lCHYcwjjE_YihoaZ8fWzv0cOZT-cGy6wXwm8T1Tk1gIDB2qWIKBrW5gCI14lmAezJdWsF0BYQo4n2LOtN8ptj9Zn4MXJYWItqgeCaVsEBcIBbU-rFtEGwoVzQygGt70_y53xxPy6CUJ9sTcCe6y2I8aPFrwz_3JQdXMEAxXKDc0qFIYtN0AKsyNPS7H5oATlY5-80oawGvL0V-8ifuCvtnMGMmhNfO8OZH3kIY&smid=share-url)). Some quotes: > Unredacted portions of the affidavit underlying the Mar-a-Lago search warrant point to a crime that has been overshadowed amid disputes over classified information. > The 38-page affidavit, [released on Friday](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/trump-affidavit-warrant.html), asserted that there was “probable cause to believe that evidence of obstruction will be found at” Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago compound, indicating that prosecutors had evidence suggesting efforts to impede the recovery of government documents. > But by some measures, the [crime of obstruction](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519) is as, or even more, serious a threat to Mr. Trump or his close associates. > Julie O’Sullivan, a Georgetown University law professor who specializes in white-collar crime, said the emerging timeline of the government’s repeatedly stymied attempts to retrieve all the documents, coupled with claims by Mr. Trump that he did nothing wrong because he had declassified all the documents in his possession, presented significant legal peril for him. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1774 "2022-08-27T17:20:54Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If there was anything incriminating in these documents, they would have been destroyed. This is improbable due to Trump and his cronies having too much of a combination of incompetence + believing he’s above the law. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1775 "2022-08-27T17:23:00Z")
Awesome summary, @Northern_Piper (of course!). Thank you for putting it together. I’ve bookmarked it, as I know many others have. Very nicely done. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1776 "2022-08-27T17:38:19Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If Trump was literally giving the names of confidential informants to our enemies and those informants were being murdered, and _anyone_ had the slightest indication that Trump may be involved, then holy shit. What a scandal for the FBI. Not to mention Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1777 "2022-08-27T17:44:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > **Trump returned all the documents Archives asked for.** > It was only when the 15 boxes arrived that Archives became aware of the national defence intelligence documents. Wait, so this means that there is no exhaustive list of every document, even the sensitive or classified ones, correct? Otherwise, wouldn’t Archives know exactly which documents were missing and provide specific references to them? I would have thought that there would be very clear records of every classified document (obviously numbered or coded such that the content is not identifiable). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1778 "2022-08-27T17:44:50Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Rudy made up some crazy shit, but never produced any evidence. Do they just say “Hunter Biden’s laptop, wink wink” or do they actually outline why they think there’s a scandal their? > [@Procrustus](#): > > Thank you. Someone asked (repeatedly) “What damaging evidence are you alleging was found on the laptop?” No response ever from our friend on the right to that question. Claims include the allegation that the disc contained child pornography. And Hunter’s admission that the Bidens have been paid tens of millions in bribery from various sources, including $30M from China. And the FBI who looked at the disc and took no action and many different media companies who have refused to report on the story are all part of the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1779 "2022-08-27T18:01:06Z")
It sounds as if Trump was in the habit of keeping documents from briefings, and not always returning them, so it may not have been clear that he still had the classified docs. Note that the first specific documents referred to by counsel to the Archives, in may 2022, were very well-known ones that they didn’t have: Kim’s letter, and Obama’s farewell note, not classified docs. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329/1780 "2022-08-27T18:16:12Z")
Just going to echo the replies. How this happened, and the time it took, is what happens when you decide (or realize) the only way you’re going to get these documents back is to have probable cause\* the ex-President is committing a crime. For me personally, I don’t like that this happened. It opens the door for political abuse in future administrations. It will happen again. It will probably happen again for abusive reasons. So, as Obama said, there’s classified and then there’s classified. This better have been something _very serious_. \*That’s the legal standard, but in this case, I imagine there was essentially a zero percent chance he was not committing a crime/had sensitive documents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-august-8-2022-case-dismissed-july-15-2024/969329.md?page=90)