# FCC Repeals Net Neutrality Rule **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522 "2017-12-14T18:35:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/181 "2017-12-15T17:20:02Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > My mother didn’t wait for me to get hit with a car before she taught me to look both ways before crossing the street. Did the police arrest you before you jaywalked, because you had the potential for Jaywalking? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/182 "2017-12-15T17:21:59Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Can’t imagine why you don’t see that. I bet you also don’t see the clear benefits you will reap from decreasing tax liabilities of corporations and wealthy individuals. :smack: Oh right. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/183 "2017-12-15T17:23:12Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > Right! Getting rid of Net Neutrality is the modern day equivilent of having a [Kristallnacht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht). > However, the Dope better make sure, they stay on the good side of the ISP or pay the bill so, that people have access to the forum. > > [ul] > Online Banking? Nope, not possible with this package, except if your a Barcley customer. > [/ul] > [ul] > Wanna get something from an online shop? Sorry, this website is restricted, please go to [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) > [/ul] > [ul] > Wanna play games? - pay your gaming package…Oh, sorry! Only games from EA! > [/ul] > [ul] > Wanna go watch YouTube? Facebook? Instagram? Twitter? - pay a Social Media package > [/ul] > > Enjoy your controlled Internet… welcome to North Korea, the NEW capital of Freedom of Speech and Choice!!! > Oh, you live in the USA? Same freaking thing! > USA! USA! USA! And they’ll kick you in the balls when installing your service! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/184 "2017-12-15T17:23:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Did the police arrest you before you jaywalked, because you had the potential for Jaywalking? Huh? Are you asserting that ISPs have been penalized before they even violated the net neutrality rules that had been in place? ---
**Author:** ![yarblek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/71e660/32.png) [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/185 "2017-12-15T17:30:03Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > What is happening as I type. 17 states have already filed suit to stop the FCC from gutting net neutrality. I expect most of the rest of them to file by the middle of next week. Included in the 17 are such hotbeds of liberalism as Mississippi, Kentucky, North Carolina and Iowa, along with the expected California, Oregon, Washington, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Maine, Vermont, Delaware, Illinois, Maryland and Virginia. I wonder if there could be a constitutional convention over net neutrality… 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/186 "2017-12-15T18:05:05Z")
I am surprised that none of the anti-neutrality posters has brought up piracy and other illegal content. It seems as though with the new rules, ISP’s would have an easier time in preventing illegal content from being served. I see this as the only possible benefit of the new rules, so I am curious as to why they aren’t running with that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/187 "2017-12-15T18:07:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am surprised that none of the anti-neutrality posters has brought up piracy and other illegal content. > > It seems as though with the new rules, ISP’s would have an easier time in preventing illegal content from being served. > > I see this as the only possible benefit of the new rules, so I am curious as to why they aren’t running with that. Because the anti-neutrality posters don’t actually know what net neutrality is and how it affects users. If they did know, they wouldn’t be anti-neutrality 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/188 "2017-12-15T18:13:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I’m not convinced by that. Back when gas prices rose the airlines did the unthinkable - charging for baggage above the price of the ticket (in other words you don’t get a discount for no baggage). Of course it was only temporary while fuel prices were high. Fast forward and here we are with low fuel prices and baggage fees. Explain to me how the market has punished such behavior? Actually, this is a good example. Placing a fee on something that used to be “free” sounds bad, but more closely the price of something tracks the cost of providing is a net positive. Having baggage fees provides an incentive for people to pack lighter. That saves the airline fuel on a flight and/or gives them more space to move cargo. The net result is that the use of airplanes, pilots, fuel, etc. is more efficient. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/189 "2017-12-15T18:28:30Z")
> [@sweepkick](#): > > No, it’s not anything like apples and pears being sold at the same price. Not at all. You have to think more in terms of shipping those apples and pears. It is more akin to putting rules in place for a shipping company that state they cannot charge more per cubic foot of trailer space for apples than for pears, or even refuse to ship apples altogether… in order to favor supplying apples from one of their own subsidiaries. The issue is that your solution prevents useful services from being offered. Let’s say that I’m shipping baby spinach and you’re shipping rice. My spinach has to be on the shelves in a week or it goes bad. Your rice can sit on a train for weeks without issue. The ideal answer is that I pay the shipping company extra so my shipment is shipped faster than yours. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/190 "2017-12-15T18:35:58Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I know this is yesterday’s news, but, really? > “I wasn’t allowed into the building!” > > “No, sir. The rule is, nobody named Bricker is allowed into the building. In no way is this rule specifically aimed at you personally; just all “Brickers” in general. Therefore, claiming that you aren’t allowed in is just wrong!” > > “So, I can enter the building?” > > “No, you’re not allowed.” How does this delightful analogy capture the fact that I could still browse Vonage’s web site, send and receive e-mail from Vonage, and even ssh into their Linux box? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/191 "2017-12-15T18:40:06Z")
> [@treis](#): > > The issue is that your solution prevents useful services from being offered. Let’s say that I’m shipping baby spinach and you’re shipping rice. My spinach has to be on the shelves in a week or it goes bad. Your rice can sit on a train for weeks without issue. The ideal answer is that I pay the shipping company extra so my shipment is shipped faster than yours. Let’s say my ISP now offers me connectivity to every site, application, service, etc., on the Internet right now for one set price at whatever speed I choose to pay for. What services could they offer me that would improve upon that? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/192 "2017-12-15T18:40:43Z")
Hey, I have a great idea. The government(s) should just sell all the highways, roads and streets to private interests and let the invisible hand level it all out. You can go where ever you want, as long as you can afford the tolls. And no regulation at all, just let the various companies “compete” for your business. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/193 "2017-12-15T18:47:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Hey, I have a great idea. The government(s) should just sell all the highways, roads and streets to private interests and let the invisible hand level it all out. You can go where ever you want, as long as you can afford the tolls. And no regulation at all, just let the various companies “compete” for your business. No, we should actually repeal all regulations on everything, and only after people start abusing things that were previously regulated should we reinstate those regulations. For instance, food labeling regulations. When was the last time food wasn’t labeled? Clearly this regulation is not needed anymore. After it’s repeal, if manufacturers start not labeling food, we can always pass the regulation again. Less regulation, better choices for the consumer - it’s win-win! ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/194 "2017-12-15T18:54:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Did the police arrest you before you jaywalked, because you had the potential for Jaywalking? You know that analogy doesn’t make any sense. We’re not talking about enforcement, we’re talking about whether there should be a regulation again jaywalking at all. We know that ISPs want to violate neutrality. How do we know this? They just spent a lot of money and political capital getting it done. Additionally, we know they try to infringe on neutrality before they’re smacked down by the FCC and the courts. We know they want to block other company’s services in favor of their own. We know that they want to make the internet something less than it is - consumers now have all the choice in the world, and the ISPs/content providers want to restrict that. During the neutrality “debate”, Comcast added [this statement](https://twitter.com/comcast/status/933394263689351175?lang=en) to their official policy webpage. When the FCC voted down neutrality, they quietly and instantly removed that statement from their page. They also removed the statement about how they won’t use paid fast lanes at the same time. I’m sure that’s the actions of an actor that has no intention of throttling content. Can you guys at least admit that this will almost certainly be worse for the consumer? That the experience they’ll have next year will be worse than the one they had yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/195 "2017-12-15T18:56:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, we should actually repeal all regulations on everything, and only after people start abusing things that were previously regulated should we reinstate those regulations. > > For instance, food labeling regulations. When was the last time food wasn’t labeled? Clearly this regulation is not needed anymore. After it’s repeal, if manufacturers start not labeling food, we can always pass the regulation again. > > Less regulation, better choices for the consumer - it’s win-win! “A fallacious argument similar to reductio ad absurdum often seen in polemical debate is the straw man logical fallacy. A straw man argument attempts to refute a given proposition by showing that a slightly different or inaccurate form of the proposition (the ‘straw man’) has an absurd, unpleasant, or ridiculous consequence, relying on the audience failing to notice that the argument does not actually apply to the original proposition.” - Wikipedia ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/196 "2017-12-15T18:56:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How does this delightful analogy capture the fact that I could still browse Vonage’s web site, send and receive e-mail from Vonage, and even ssh into their Linux box? It doesn’t. But since none of that is remotely relevant to the original complaint, I’m not sure why that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/197 "2017-12-15T19:00:36Z")
_Reductio ad absurdum delenda est!_ ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/198 "2017-12-15T19:03:30Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I am surprised that none of the anti-neutrality posters has brought up piracy and other illegal content. > > It seems as though with the new rules, ISP’s would have an easier time in preventing illegal content from being served. It seems likely that as soon as the big studios can reach a payment agreement with the ISPs, BitTorrent speeds will be throttled down to almost zero. Better download movies while you can! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/199 "2017-12-15T19:05:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “A fallacious argument similar to reductio ad absurdum often seen in polemical debate is the straw man logical fallacy. A straw man argument attempts to refute a given proposition by showing that a slightly different or inaccurate form of the proposition (the ‘straw man’) has an absurd, unpleasant, or ridiculous consequence, relying on the audience failing to notice that the argument does not actually apply to the original proposition.” > > - Wikipedia Thanks for that quoted definition. Your stated reason for thinking the repeal of NN is “potentially a good thing” is only “less regulation is better” You’ve offered no other reasoning beside “less regulation is better” despite numerous attempts by me and others to get your opinion on why NN is “potentially a good thing” Further, you and others in this thread consistently ignore what was going on in the Internet access world that directly led up to the start of NN. You rather obtusely keep implying that NN wasn’t created because something needed regulating, but simply for no reason at all. If one were to take your stated “less regulation is better” to further reaches than just Internet access, one might come up with a similar reasoning for repealing food labeling regulations. The reason you think this is a straw-man is that you fail to see the reasons that NN was implemented in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522/200 "2017-12-15T19:09:02Z")
It’s porn, isn’t it? All over the country, at any given moment, thousands of people are rubbing one out watching _Teenage Vampire Lesbian Sluts from Outer Space_, and they aren’t making \*any \*money off that! They don’t have to invest anything, don’t have to build infrastructure, don’t have to do anything but reach out and grab it! So to speak. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fcc-repeals-net-neutrality-rule/804522.md?page=11)